Board index » kylix » Re: Help me to understand.

Marc Collin

kylix Developer
 

Re: Help me to understand.


2004-04-01 11:58:53 AM
kylix1
Marcello Dias wrote:
Quote
If Vcl.Linux had been developed All application that already exists In Windows would run on Linux.
not really
Quote
When I discovered that I had to change all my applications (The applications of my former company) to Clx in order for
it to be compatible with Linux,That there were almost no Third part components available(In Delphi 6 there
was not EVEN a CLX report component).
check fortes report: www.fortesinformatica.com.br/rlib/
and
report manager: reportman.sourceforge.net/
Quote
Dbexpress drivers in Windows were very bugy too.
And Iīve seen many complaining about the quality of QT in Windows.
use ibx component
Quote
Linux is starting to grow in Brazil(Not as fast as someone say),
Unfortunately Iīll have to study another language,even knowing that Java is not as productive as Delphi
false
java is very popular because java developpment is short
Quote
and of course that something that runs on a virtual machine will never be as
fast as native code.
false check bench, java beat delphi on long and are very fast....
some example
img.osnews.com/img/5602/results.jpg
bench explication
osnews.com/story.php
in the comment, you can see delphi code... (it's me who produce the
delphi code... work also under linux...)
you can see some bench like that on the web...
Quote
I know that the learning curve will be enormous.
But I donīt see any future for Kylix even in a long term.
Unfortuantelly the first impression is what counts.

When a product gets discontinued it affects the image of the whole company not only of that product.
(Not talking about the money spent on its development).
I think that the future of Kylix and C# Builder will affect the Image of Delphi(My actual Environment),and
Jbuilder(Something that Iīm considering as my new IDE).
eclipse are the most popular ide
Quote
When someone spends its money and time in a product and then it gets discontinued its natural not to be happy and
generate noise.

I know many will follow this message with replies like Borland wonīt discontinue anything:
I expect to read it in 5 years and smile at my own words but until then I expect Borland to think in the
errors of the past, minimize its effects and Donīt do others in the
future.
Quote

Regards,
Marcello Dias

--
Borland rulez pages.infinit.net/borland
 
 
Marc Collin

kylix Developer

2004-04-01 12:00:09 PM

Re:Re: Help me to understand.

JQP wrote:
Quote
"Marcello Dias" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news:40607a86$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...

>Linux is starting to grow in Brazil(Not as fast as someone say),

This is the real crux of the Kylix problem.

Borland bought into the hype and built Kylix only to discover first hand
that the growth in demand for Linux tools was not as fast as some say.


developper are not crazy, they don't want to pay for a product with a
lot of bug
--
Borland rulez pages.infinit.net/borland
 
Marc Collin

kylix Developer

2004-04-01 12:14:04 PM

Re:Re: Help me to understand.

Marcello Dias wrote:
Quote
pnichols < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote:

>Marcello Dias wrote:
 >
 >
 >How do you know that Java is not as productive as Delphi? I disagree
With some things, I can do it as

>efficient, or more so in Java. With other things, Delphi is more efficient.

Excuse me I myself think Java to be then thousands more productive than Delphi in everything that is related to Internet(At least Delphi 7).

I leave from ERP,Basically Databasing,and off course I know that my new applications will have to provide much more support to Internet ,so score 1 to Delphi and other to Java.

Will probably see again in the Delphi non technical group.

I'm still divided between learning Java and .NET.

I'm calling all my friend here in Brazil.

Up to know they're saying that for the kind of product I Make .net is more productive but that it have a hard feature in Linux.
Up to know there are 20 jobs for Java and one for .NET here in Brazil
samething everythere
Quote

Its being very hard to choose.

Marcello
--
Borland rulez pages.infinit.net/borland
 

{smallsort}
JED

kylix Developer

2004-04-01 01:18:20 PM

Re:Re: Help me to understand.

Michael Schnell wrote:
Quote
Lazarus/FreePascal (Delphi clone for Windows and Linux)
It's been up and coming for years now...
 
Michael Schnell

kylix Developer

2004-04-01 02:41:16 PM

Re:Re: Help me to understand.

Quote
>Lazarus/FreePascal (Delphi clone for Windows and Linux)
It's been up and coming for years now...
Right. I was watching it from remote and it seems is is gaining speed
right now. A small test I did with the Windows version was encouraging.
-Michael
 
Michael Schnell

kylix Developer

2004-04-01 02:45:10 PM

Re:Re: Help me to understand.

Quote

false check bench, java beat delphi on long and are very fast....
some example

img.osnews.com/img/5602/results.jpg

???? No Delphi in there, Java was slowest ?????
-Michael
 
Bob { Goddard }

kylix Developer

2004-04-01 04:29:09 PM

Re:Re: Help me to understand.

Michael Schnell wrote:
Quote
>
 >false check bench, java beat delphi on long and are very fast....
 >some example
 >
 >img.osnews.com/img/5602/results.jpg
 >
???? No Delphi in there, Java was slowest ?????
Exclude the trig functions, then see just how fast or
slow Java is.
B
--
www.mailtrap.org.uk/
 
theo

kylix Developer

2004-04-01 05:17:18 PM

Re:Re: Help me to understand.

Quote
fast as native code.

false check bench, java beat delphi on long and are very fast....
some example

img.osnews.com/img/5602/results.jpg

bench explication
osnews.com/story.php


I don't understand how you come to the conclusion that java beats delphi
in this benchmark test.
The diagram shows, that java 1.4.2. is slowest in this comparison and
the text says "Delphi5 is 21% faster than C#".
???
 
Michael Schnell

kylix Developer

2004-04-01 08:57:20 PM

Re:Re: Help me to understand.

Quote
the text says "Delphi5 is 21% faster than C#".

It would be interesting to see
- D8 compared to C#,
- C# by microsoft compared to C# by mono,
- C++ By Microsoft compare to C++ by Borland.
- the .Net framework by Microsoft compared to the .Net framework by
Mono
- the .Net framework by Mono on Windows compared to the .Net framework
by Mono on Linux
-Michael
 
Marc Collin

kylix Developer

2004-04-01 11:29:28 PM

Re:Re: Help me to understand.

Michael Schnell wrote:
Quote
>false check bench, java beat delphi on long and are very fast....
 >some example
 >
 >img.osnews.com/img/5602/results.jpg
 >

???? No Delphi in there, Java was slowest ?????

-Michael
you are not able to read?
i said: in the comment, you can see delphi code... (it's me who produce
the delphi code... work also under linux...)
--
Borland rulez pages.infinit.net/borland
 
Marc Collin

kylix Developer

2004-04-01 11:31:55 PM

Re:Re: Help me to understand.

theo wrote:
Quote

>fast as native code.
 >
 >false check bench, java beat delphi on long and are very fast....
 >some example
 >
 >img.osnews.com/img/5602/results.jpg
 >
 >bench explication
 >osnews.com/story.php
 >
 >
I don't understand how you come to the conclusion that java beats delphi
in this benchmark test.
depends on the bench
Quote
The diagram shows, that java 1.4.2. is slowest in this comparison and
the text says "Delphi5 is 21% faster than C#".
for a compiled langage, delphi is not fast
java is very close to Delphi in term of performance then to say that
java is slow... it is blabla of amateur
Quote
???

--
Borland rulez pages.infinit.net/borland
 
pnichols

kylix Developer

2004-04-02 02:32:00 AM

Re:Re: Help me to understand.

theo wrote:
Quote

>fast as native code.
 >
 >false check bench, java beat delphi on long and are very fast....
 >some example
 >
 >img.osnews.com/img/5602/results.jpg
 >
 >bench explication
 >osnews.com/story.php
 >
 >
I don't understand how you come to the conclusion that java beats delphi
in this benchmark test.

The diagram shows, that java 1.4.2. is slowest in this comparison and
the text says "Delphi5 is 21% faster than C#".

The diagram shows Java only to be slower in one category, trig functions. In
every other category, Java was not the slowest. In fact, the author
specifically states that in every other category, Java was equal to Visual
C++.
I haven't look at the trig functions to see how they were done, but I do not
use trigonomic functions in my usual Java programs.
 
dk_sz

kylix Developer

2004-04-13 12:02:07 AM

Re:Re: Help me to understand.

Quote
Excuse me I myself think Java to be then thousands more productive than
Delphi in everything that is related to Internet(At least Delphi 7).
I can hardly believe that statement... But then again I don't do Java
anymore...
Have you tryed Indy, ICS etc. for Delphi? What is much harder in Delphi?
(I am really curious about this because I hear it a lot!)
best regards
Thomas Schulz
 
Dean Hill

kylix Developer

2004-04-14 03:31:02 AM

Re:Re: Help me to understand.

Hi,
I have to say that this was a very interesting post. I have been
programming for too long and wanted to get into Java. Can already
program in Delphi, C++, VB (Aarrgh, should not have admitted that),
VB.NET and C#. Delphi is my true love back from the Turbo Pascal 3.0
days. I see more of a future in Java for multi-platform use and the
way I see it, it is always good to keep ones options open. I have
Eclipse (Configured for C++ use).
What would be a good starting point / tutorial for Java. Apart from
the syntactical differences which should be quite easy to adopt. The
biggest unknown is the class libraries etc. Also, how should I setup
an IDE. I would like to stay with Eclipse for now although I would
like a visual forms designer (is their something open source / free as
a starting point that includes J2EE)?
Thanks
Dean
pnichols wrote:
Quote
But there are other Layout Managers that work much better now. Some
are open source, some are proprietary, and some are part of the J2SDK
1.4.x. Spring is not bad, and the TableLayout is pretty good, which
is in the JGoodies OS tools.
Plus lots of good stuff.
 
A.Wessels

kylix Developer

2004-04-14 09:18:08 PM

Re:Re: Help me to understand.

Hello Dean,
I'm a pascal programmer myself and I use Delphi all the time on Windoze
and Linux boxes. One good thing about Kylix is, that it has brought RAD
development to the Linux platform.
About your question for an open source / free RAD for Java try Netbeans
from www.netbeans.org or JBuilderX from www.borland.com.
good luck, Arie
Dean Hill wrote:
Quote
Hi,

I have to say that this was a very interesting post. I have been
programming for too long and wanted to get into Java. Can already
program in Delphi, C++, VB (Aarrgh, should not have admitted that),
VB.NET and C#. Delphi is my true love back from the Turbo Pascal 3.0
days. I see more of a future in Java for multi-platform use and the
way I see it, it is always good to keep ones options open. I have
Eclipse (Configured for C++ use).

What would be a good starting point / tutorial for Java. Apart from
the syntactical differences which should be quite easy to adopt. The
biggest unknown is the class libraries etc. Also, how should I setup
an IDE. I would like to stay with Eclipse for now although I would
like a visual forms designer (is their something open source / free as
a starting point that includes J2EE)?

Thanks

Dean

pnichols wrote:


>But there are other Layout Managers that work much better now. Some
 >are open source, some are proprietary, and some are part of the J2SDK
 >1.4.x. Spring is not bad, and the TableLayout is pretty good, which
 >is in the JGoodies OS tools.

>Plus lots of good stuff.