Board index » kylix » Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??
Alessandro Federici
kylix Developer |
Alessandro Federici
kylix Developer |
Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??2003-12-11 11:53:12 AM kylix2 "pNichols" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message [..] QuoteThe process however, as you correctly stated, as to what constitutes the |
Andreas Prucha
kylix Developer |
2003-12-11 09:03:26 PM
Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??
XXXX@XXXXX.COM (Mike Margerum) wrote in news:3fd77b1e.4325459
@newsgroups.borland.com: QuoteThe reason kylix was doomed is because exactly 0% of linux developers that they do not really want OP? QuoteIf they had come out with a |
Andreas Prucha
kylix Developer |
2003-12-11 09:09:52 PM
Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??
"Alessandro Federici" <alef@remobjects[remove-this].com>wrote in
QuoteNonsense. Java has never been advertise or pushed as a cross platform QuoteKylix has been dommed since day one. The LInux world is not interested of the market. I think that most Kylix-people come from Windows and want to develop on Linux, too. And I think that many people were not so happy because the "Delphi for Linux" does not run so smooth as the Windows-version does. I think Borland should really consider looking at the worst problems and provide a patch. {smallsort} |
Ender
kylix Developer |
2003-12-12 05:06:03 AM
Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??
MM>I agreed with the rest of your post but Kylix wasnt doomed because
MM>the linux world doesnt want to spend money. [...] Maybe this play some role but i'm don't think that it was main role. There are few causes of Borland's failure with Kylix. 1. Ideologically antagonistic product for Linux with closed sources. Especially with packages and dbExpress drivers. 2. Compiler not available on other platforms (UNIX'es). 3. Insufficient quality of product with absence of updates. |
Ender
kylix Developer |
2003-12-12 05:28:12 AM
Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??
p>>>No, it is called you are attempting to run a program with less
p>>>memory than is recommended. Quote>:-)))))) Interesting point of view. You trying to say that speed of p>however, I would like to know how you know this. top command show that only 68Mb is used by process. No other programs except for KDE itself is loaded. Quote>Did you tried to install CBX? How you feel after speed of installer CBuilderX is slow, period. Mozilla (does it use Java?) is slow, period... Quote>BuilderX contain many more functions and libraries than Delphi or p>Builder X is fully optimized now, since it is a more or less a p>preview, not a final product. p>However consider: p>a Full De{*word*81} and compile environment for Borland C++ for Windows, p>Intel 32 bit Compilers, Microsoft Visual C++ Compilers, Sun C++ Forte p>Compilers, p>Metroworks C++ Compilers, GNU C++ compilers. Wait. It is environment for calling external compilers and de{*word*81}s. Why it should be more complicated than Kylix or Delphi which carries integrated compiler, de{*word*81}, GUI builder, component library, powerful code editor and explorer itself? It (CBuilderX) does not use (load/run) de{*word*81} or compiler unless developer instruct environment to compile or debug program. p>Last time I looked, Delphi had only one compiler, and Linux only one p>compiler. <G>Of course you know this will take some overhead to supply p>this. Please tell to me how external compiler (GCC) can create overhead for CBuilderX in any time except for Make? p>Add to this CVS integration, Rational Clear Case Integration, and p>Visual Source Safe Integration. Also add Intel's VTune Integration. p>Add the UML Modeler integration. Refactoring integration, XML Spy, p>Corba p>Development and Debug test environment, JavaDoc integration, etc. Things you name just "cool words". Did this things run all the same time? It is not used at all, at least by me. All that "integration" you named should be dead and not consume any resources unless i try to use it. p>None of what I listed is in Delphi, except Corba, which does not p>support a full debug environment for Corba (Delphi was using a COM p>wrapper for p>Corba). I do not however, know about Delphi 7 and 8, since I have not p>looked at either. Do you claim that all this stuff actively working and slow down entrie system while i'm editing code or navigating through menu? p>Again, I do not know what GUI hooks are there or not. I do not p>proclaim to be an expert with BuilderX, I have only breifly looked at p>it. I do use p>JBuilder however, everyday, and the list for the JB IDE is much more p>extensive than anything Delphi has. Since they are sharing a common p>IDE, and again, Builder X is a first release (without the GUI p>builder), I'm awaiting GUI bulder with fear. If they able to create program that working slow even with trivial things, what we should expect from GUI builder? p>I doubt it has been optimised yet. I do know that JB 7 is not as fast p>as JB X, nor is JB 9. JB 9 was the first to use JDK 1.4.x, whereas the p>rest of the versions were built using 1.2 (JB 3, JB 3.5) or 1.3.x (4-7). By the way i tried to on recomended optimizations of Java VM. Nothing changed, at least visually. p>Borland recommends a minimum of 512 meg and recommends 768 meg of p>RAM. Since you are shy at least 128 meg, I do not now how it would p>run on your machine. The process used about ~70Mb of RAM. Why 384Mb of existing memory should make any slowdown? p>I can run JB X on 256 meg of Ram, but it runs quite a bit different from p>256 meg to 512 meg or more of RAM. Speed difference is pretty p>substantial. Don't use it. I feel that JB closer to Delphi with functionality than CBuilderX. --- Andrew V. Fionik, Papillon Systems, Unix Programmers Group For reply use "ender" instead of "fionika" in e-mail. |
Alessandro Federici
kylix Developer |
2003-12-12 12:38:05 PM
Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??
"Andreas Prucha" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
[..] QuoteI do not think so. The is not just the {*word*155}-linux-community where you years and are {*word*155} fans? QuoteI think Borland should really consider looking at the worst problems and MUCH better. |
Andreas Prucha
kylix Developer |
2003-12-12 04:16:18 PM
Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??
"Alessandro Federici" <alef@remobjects[remove-this].com>wrote in
QuoteWell, which group of developers do you think has the bigger mass on Companies will want to provide their software for Windows and for Linux. |
JQP
kylix Developer |
2003-12-12 08:57:14 PM
Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??
"Mike Marge" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
QuoteThe standard in controlled by a democratic process but the product is Sun determines who is allowed to participate in the JCP. Sun implements any "recommendations" made by the JCP. Doesn't sound like any "democratic process" I've seen. As I said earlier, there is no doubt as to who owns and controls Java. |
Alessandro Federici
kylix Developer |
2003-12-13 06:51:27 AM
Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??
"Andreas Prucha" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
[..] QuoteAt the moment the {*word*155}-fans. QuoteHowever, I think that this is changing. |
dontusethis
kylix Developer |
2003-12-13 11:52:37 AM
Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??QuoteImpossible, because I want it <g> QuoteNo, I do not think so. There are tons of C++ development tools out there, |
dontusethis
kylix Developer |
2003-12-13 11:55:24 AM
Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??Quote1. Ideologically antagonistic product for Linux with closed sources. source apps is that Borland doesnt keep up with rpms for the latest distro's. This aint windows, we dont have to wait till 2007 for our next release :) Quote2. Compiler not available on other platforms (UNIX'es). Quote3. Insufficient quality of product with absence of updates. |
dontusethis
kylix Developer |
2003-12-13 11:58:14 AM
Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??QuoteThose incorrectly denigrating Java seem to think that because C# is ECMA, compiler. This is just what i've read. i could be wring. |
dontusethis
kylix Developer |
2003-12-13 12:02:14 PM
Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??QuoteEnforcing method signature for example. Compile errors if you do not throw can be a {*word*156}e to find. |
dontusethis
kylix Developer |
2003-12-13 12:04:58 PM
Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??QuoteWhat JDK version are you using? This is not true with 1.4.2, are noticably slower than win32 apps. Quote>Is there a way using the JDK to not JIT code and cut the memory usage JIT. Why cant java run respectably without JIT'ing? |
dontusethis
kylix Developer |
2003-12-13 12:07:15 PM
Re:Re: DElphi/Kylix Vs. Java ??QuoteGo and ascertain this fact yourself. More specifically, have a look at the experiences as an end user of some java apps. I just dont get what all of the fuss is about. Who cares if something is write once if it doesnt run well anywhere. |