Board index » kylix » Re: Desktop Linux any decade now!

Re: Desktop Linux any decade now!


2004-01-27 08:52:06 AM
kylix2
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The "idiot user" needs to do a few other things ---- like find his files and
ok use the file finder in Konqueror
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occasionally access a floppy or
in kde the floppy is on the desktop. automounting has been around for
a long time.
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USB pen drive.

Plug it in
Icon shows up on desktop
Double click on it
There's your files
I do it all the time.
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There are lots of little usability factors and philosophy that haven't been
fully cloned in Linux yet. Simple things like one central document
repository. It's not just the OS. In order for the whole package to really
gel, applications need to work consistently as well.

Apparently you arent using a new distro. This stuff is changing at
the speed of light. Mandrake 9.2 defaults to a "My Documents" folder
in your home directory. If anything, Linux is better at keeping users
in their home directories. its kind of a hack in windows.
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Programmers seem to appreciate the value of "abstraction" as it relates to
their work but many seem to have trouble applying the same concept to
computer hardware and usability. Ideally, the typical user shouldn't have
to understand the mechanics of his computer any more than the average driver
understands the mechanics of his automobile.

Give me and example of something from a usability perspective that
isnt "abstracted" enough in the recent linux distro? My dad uses a
linux box I setup for him. If he cant do it anyone can. Everything
he needs is on the desktop.
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It's all a matter of philosophy. The "mount" command under Linux is about as
far away from this philosophy as you can possibly get. At the other
extreme, a USB pocket/pen drive under Windows is about as close as you can
get. On an XP machine, just plug the USB drive in and a file list pops up.
Fantastic little devices BTW! I have a 256 Mb one attached to my keyring
and I carry it with me as off-site back up for the source code of the apps
I'm currently working on.

When was the last time you ran linux. Red hat 5? supermount has been
around for years.
The USB keys work on any new linux distro. You really need to take a
look at mandrake 9.2 Its dam close to being ready for primetime. It
detected things on my machine that win2k would never have without a
little nudging by me. It even installed on my dell laptop and
detected everyhting including my wireless lan card.
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Re:Re: Desktop Linux any decade now!

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Op-s-s! Because default kernel was unable to work with certain hardware on
my new PC i installed latest kernel from our "nuclear departament" :-).
uname -rv shows 2.4.22-ac4 #9 SMP

It may still be need to be compiled to work with multimedia better.
There are options in there but I really dont know the details.
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Because it needed that setup. Why they automatically installing plethora of
text editors? Name few - vim,ed,joe,emacs,kate,kwrite,kedit,mcedit (as part
of mc). I think if i install gnome it add two or three gnome specific. User
needed actually only two editors - one for console and one for graphics.

I have to agree there. They put way too much {*word*99} in the menus. They
need to start depreacting some apps. MDK also needs a "click n run"
type app where a user can install updates from an MDK server with a
few clicks. RPM and URPMI suck.
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1. Why the hell structure of menu in the menu editor is different from that
i see when i use menu? There are not visible previously items, some of them
localised some not. I'm really editing menu that i going to use?

Im not going to argue that linux needs work for a power user but most
people arent going to edit their menus. They are going to use the 10
apps on the desktop that you installed. My dad doesnt install
anything. I do it when im around. I actually think this is a good
thing. People installing shit off the net is the biggest source of
trojans and viruses.
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2. Why i don't see changes in menu immediately after i save it? Why i cannot
just select program i trying to add to menu? Why i should to type in full
path to executable? If i mistaken by typing file path the program will not
run without any error message - is entered path wrong or program just not
able to start because of some error in it?

Menus are a bit buggy, especially in mdk9.2
run update-menus at the commandline as root
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6. Ok i guess that these icons located in some directory as files. How do i
find that directory? There is no any hint where it may be found. In
addition i cannot see file name fully, dialog not resizeable and 90% of
strings does not fit into listbox.

it is too bad the icon isnt in the executable. This is annoying.
 

Re:Re: Desktop Linux any decade now!

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The average Home user did not set their PC up, and would have the same
problems with Linux. Try telling the "I bought my computer from Office
Depot, Wal Mart, etc, that they need to download and install the latest
drivers, configure their new DVD ROM drives, worry about the "Windows could
not find your software, you wil need to manually install the drivers", etc.
how to do this and it would be an equal experience on Linux.


Exactly, my dad would have no idea how to create a shortcut, how to
edit the start menu, etc.
 

{smallsort}

Re:Re: Desktop Linux any decade now!

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>/dev/hda:
>multcount = 16 (on)
>IO_support = 1 (32-bit)
>unmaskirq = 0 (off)
>using_dma = 1 (on)
>keepsettings = 0 (off)
>readonly = 0 (off)
>readahead = 8 (on)
>geometry = 2434/255/63, sectors = 39102336, start = 0
[...]
Bob { Goddard } wrote:
You want unmaskirq turned on.
Ok. I'm try it.
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Is this really only a 20GB HD?
If so, it may also not be operating at the highest spec for
the motherboard.
I have also CD-ROM drive and old Fujitsu HDD 1.6Gb but they both connected
to another IDE channel and usually both are inactive. Yet both use dma.
 

Re:Re: Desktop Linux any decade now!

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>Op-s-s! Because default kernel was unable to work with certain hardware on
>my new PC i installed latest kernel from our "nuclear departament" :-).
>uname -rv shows 2.4.22-ac4 #9 SMP
Mike Margerum wrote:
It may still be need to be compiled to work with multimedia better.
There are options in there but I really dont know the details.
I'll check it. However, thank you for pointing possible way.
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I have to agree there. They put way too much {*word*99} in the menus. They
need to start depreacting some apps. MDK also needs a "click n run"
type app where a user can install updates from an MDK server with a
few clicks. RPM and URPMI suck.
There are certain amount of GUI package managers, however what i'm not like
is that they usually still too buggy (kpackage going down regularly) and
required to understanding rpm mechanism anyway.
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>1. Why the hell structure of menu in the menu editor is different from
>that i see when i use menu? There are not visible previously items, some
>of them localised some not. I'm really editing menu that i going to use?
Im not going to argue that linux needs work for a power user but most
people arent going to edit their menus. They are going to use the 10
apps on the desktop that you installed. My dad doesnt install
anything. I do it when im around. I actually think this is a good
thing. People installing shit off the net is the biggest source of
trojans and viruses.
No, no. Don't move talk to different subject. It was just typical example of
bad design, bad common apporach to building user friendly GUI. Other GUI
apps often not better designed. Good design does not end on drawing
aestethic widgets, it is begin with.
 

Re:Re: Desktop Linux any decade now!

Ender wrote:
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>>/dev/hda:
>>multcount = 16 (on)
>>IO_support = 1 (32-bit)
>>unmaskirq = 0 (off)
>>using_dma = 1 (on)
>>keepsettings = 0 (off)
>>readonly = 0 (off)
>>readahead = 8 (on)
>>geometry = 2434/255/63, sectors = 39102336, start = 0
>[...]

Bob { Goddard } wrote:
>You want unmaskirq turned on.

Ok. I'm try it.

>Is this really only a 20GB HD?
>If so, it may also not be operating at the highest spec for
>the motherboard.

I have also CD-ROM drive and old Fujitsu HDD 1.6Gb but they both connected
to another IDE channel and usually both are inactive. Yet both use dma.
I would also run "hdparm -I /dev/hda" and check which DMA settings
it's using.
B
--
www.mailtrap.org.uk/
 

Re:Re: Desktop Linux any decade now!

JQP wrote:
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"Mike Margerum" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>Not true at all. I mean what does an idiot user need to do? Click on
>about 5 different icons. One for office, one for IE, one for email,
>and one for solitaire.

The "idiot user" needs to do a few other things ---- like find his files
and occasionally access a floppy or USB pen drive.

And what is the difference between using Konuqeror, verses using Explorer? I
do not understand this one at all.
Some distros, true, to do not have a good to honest auto-mount for DVDs and
CD-ROMs. I wonder however, how long (fos these distros), it would take for
someone to right click on a CD-ROM or DVD icons, and choose the mount/Eject
option?
Most pens are supported, so I do not understand this one either.
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There are lots of little usability factors and philosophy that haven't
been
fully cloned in Linux yet. Simple things like one central document
repository. It's not just the OS. In order for the whole package to
really gel, applications need to work consistently as well.

Central Document repository? How about /home/Documents ? I think that one is
as centralized as Widows Documents and Settings.
Quote
Programmers seem to appreciate the value of "abstraction" as it relates to
their work but many seem to have trouble applying the same concept to
computer hardware and usability. Ideally, the typical user shouldn't have
to understand the mechanics of his computer any more than the average
driver understands the mechanics of his automobile.

Agreed. I do not, overall see why Windows is thought by you to have such an
advantage here. Evidently, you have not used a good modern Desktop distro,
like Mandrake, Suse, Zandros, etc. All of these offer seamless point and
click operations, just like Windows. KDE is more advanced than Gnome, to be
sure, but both work reasonably well.
For the programmer, more tools are at his disposal. Shell Scripting in
Linux, can make adins smile with joy. They do not have to learn a full
fledged programming language to create some pretty awesome utilitites.