On 20 Sep 1997 18:42:51 GMT, "M.L. Scott" <s340...@student.uq.edu.au>
wrote:

Dennis D. Powers
PC/POLL SYSTEMS
Den...@pcpoll.com

Hello,

I am looking for advice regarding the most sensible programming path that I
should take. I have recently been teaching myself both QBasic and Turbo
Pascal, basically simultaneously, often by directly translating programs I
write in one language into the other. My questions are this :

(a) Is it a waste of time learning QBasic when Turbo Pascal is available to
me, given that I intend to move eventually into C\C++ ? I know that Pascal
is considered a suitable first language and is used as such in many CS
courses, so is there anything to be gained from having a grounding in
QBasic and Pascal rather than Pascal alone (besides the fact that QBasic
programming is enjoyable) - or, on the contrary, does a grounding in QBasic
necessitate a programmer "unlearning" what he has learned before moving to
Pascal and C?

(b) If learning QBasic is not a waste of time, is it a bad idea to try to
learn these two programming languages at the same time, and if so, how
fluent should one become in QBasic before moving onto Pascal?

I would greatly appreciate any advice anyone could give me concerning the
above questions, and thank you in advance.

c u,
Malte

M.L. Scott <s340...@student.uq.edu.au> wrote in
article <01bcc5f5$10f9d880$cf1d14ac@twkeckuj>...

Although you don't mention whether you've dabbled in Windows programming
yet, I'm going to assume that you've just been working in DOS for now.  If
not,
my apologies for waxing verbose here . . .

You should begin to prepare yourself at some point for designing and
programming
applications in the Windows environment.  And I mean all GUI-based
multi-etc.
operating systems, not just MS Windows.  I can't overstress the importance
of forcing yourself to re-think and re-evaluate everything you've learned
once you
do.  And it doesn't matter which programming languages you know.

The problem with working in the DOS environment is that you become used to
a certain way of handling user interaction with your programs.  Your design
and coding work is influenced to a great degree by this.  Once you start
programming for Windows, it can be quite a challenge to re-structure your
thinking to make the most efficient and reliable use of the environment.

Also, by translating among languages, you gain experience that can be
valuable in the future.

Example: The future. You're a programmer for Acme. You program in
Pascal. But a customer, only wants his program developed in Visual Basic
24.0. You will already have some background in QBasic. QBasic --> Visual
Basic. A year later he wants it in C+++. Bingo, you've already got a
background in C.
See what I mean?

--
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Malte Clasen allegedly said:

[munch]
MC> I think starting with TP is the best solution. It doesn't allow quick
MC> hacks like the famous GOTO and it's not more difficult to understand
MC> than QBasic.

Turbo Pascal most definitely does allow GOTO. Its only difference is that you
have to declare and attach labels before you can goto them.

I do not know much about Pascal. I have used Pascal{*word*219}rs
for windows C files, and PowerBasic with C objects files.
If I was thinking about Basic it would be a compiler one.
In my case PowerBasic. (www.powerbasic.com). As far as
C is concernd it is a vary good language. A bit hard to learn.
and I think that mixed languages is the way to go. As then
you can use the best of both.
garuss...@clandjop.com

M.L. Scott <s340...@student.uq.edu.au> wrote in article
<01bcc5f5$10f9d880$cf1d14ac@twkeckuj>...

Interesting in whose opinion?
Valuable experience pops up in unlikely places...

My Personal Advice Would Be To Learn Both... Not Nesacarily At THe
Same Time As You Could Possibly Get COnfused ;)... BUt Qbasic and
Pascal Are Both Excellent Beginner Languages... Pascal Was Built As a
Instructional Tool In The First Place So...
But (IMO) Start With Basic (Qbasic or Powerbasic) Untill You Feel
Comfortable Then Push on to pascal... with those 2 languages under
your belt you will be set to take on greater languages... IE: visual
basic... for smaller simpler windows applications... then possibly
move on to C++(dos) or Visual C++(win)... thats my opinion... some
may disagree and some may agree but dont listen to me if someone
smarter cums along ;)
--
<|=) sas...@worldnet.att.net (=|>

"IMHO, it is never a waste to have learned anything."

Perhaps not in an absolute sense, but what about the possibility
of a high opportunity cost?  In other words, learning about
something may take away time from learning about something even
more interesting.

M.L.,

There have been several good responses from your question.   I have used
both TP and QBasic (for about 5 years) in a DOS environment, which is what
I am assuming you are using.  I had gotten away from programming for about
3 years and now am trying to catch up by doing programming for Windows.
And it is taking me a while to get used to doing programming in Windows
(VisualBasic, and some VisualC++).  If you think you will be doing Windows
(95 or 3.1) you may want to jump to a Windows programming so you won't have
to unlearn creating DOS based apps.  However, in learning VisualBasic it
definitely helps that I know QBasic.  Writing programs for Windows can get
more complicated and there is more pieces to learn.

If you will be staying in a DOS environment either one will work for you.
TurboPascal has better structures.  However, using the Qbasic environment
works really well.  A guy mentioned in a response about Gotos in Qbasic.
QBasic originates from Basic which was pretty weak for building solid
applications and that's why there are people who HATE QBasic or any other
language that has Basic in its name.  And Qbasic has come a long way from
Basic.  When I started using QBasic I got away from using Gotos (if this
means anything to you).

As a matter of fact, a co-worker who does high end software development in
C++ and Java was telling me about a friend who starting doing VisualBasic
as a consultant and is doing very well.  Anyway, my co-worker said that
VisualBasic is in strong demand.

Good luck and if possible let me know what you decide.

Thanks, David Chapa
mylastn...@spec.com (replace mylastname with Chapa)

I, too, am interested in learning programming, albeit one language at
a time.  Am I to understand from the above snippet that Pascal gives
one a background in C?

Which is the best version of Pascal to start with?

Is there a difference between Pascal and Turbo Pascal?

Thanks in advance for your time,

Beginning programming has more to do with learning how to produce
effective algorithms than it does with learning a particular language's
syntax. Once one knows how to make a good algorithm, syntax is just a
detail.

Back to Pascal and C: Suppose one starts off knowing nothing about
programming and begins by learning algorithms. If the language is Pascal
then those algorithms will translate easily into the language. If, on
the other hand, the language is C then the peculiarities of the syntax
could be stumbling block.

As an example of this, I am at present involved with a beginning C/C++
course. (The University of North Texas Computer Science Department, for
some reason, decided that C should be the first programming language for
the beginning computer science student. This is a bad move in my
opinion.) I am observing that the students fall into one of three
categories:

  1. They don't understand the first thing about algorithms because they
are so overwhelmed by the C language. The algorithms are not clear to
them because they don't understand the language that the algorithms are
presented in.
  2. Have figured out, with some effort, the algorithm (that is, the
solution is apparent to them in human terms) but cannot fathom how to
translate that algorithm to C.
  3. They have previous programming experience and therefore have no
problem with the algorithmic portion, so they can concentrate on
learning the C language.

Of these three groups, the first two are failing the class and the third
is receiving high marks. The point is, I guess, that C is not difficult
to learn if one knows how to program already.