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Message forwarded from Neil J. Rubenking, Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine

Earl,

I'm looking at borland.public.delphi.vcl.components.using, and I see that
SOME people can see my posts! A fellow (gal?) named Heiko Ammermann had a
question about HTreeItems, and we went back and forth on it. Apparently
people logging in through whatever-the-heck mailserver CAN see my posts, and
those logging in specifically through forums.inprise.com CAN'T. How stupid
is that??

OK, I see your thread. I must admit, I'm incredibly irked to have been
wasting my time posting considered, serious responses that inprise-Borland
summarily rejected, with no notice. I also track several of the
microsoft.public.xxx newsgroups, and they have no such problem. Yes, stupid
spam appears in these forums, but not more than is easily ignored.

My inclination is to stop wasting my time. If the situation changes, perhaps
someone will drop me an email. And, perhaps you will be kind enough to post
this message for me, since if I post it nobody will see it.

- Neil J. Rubenking
Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine

 

Re:Message forwarded from Neil J. Rubenking, Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine


Quote
> My inclination is to stop wasting my time. If the situation changes,
perhaps
> someone will drop me an email. And, perhaps you will be kind enough to
post
> this message for me, since if I post it nobody will see it.

> - Neil J. Rubenking
> Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine

This message by itself has to be the single most depressing message I have
seen in these newsgroups in about a month.
I tend to watch both the Borland newsgroups and Deja in case people post on
servers which Borland doesn't refresh. I've been reading Neil's posts and
have learned from him. I seriously wish we could find a good solution to
this problem.

I too think the spam is tolerable (Seeing as, even though this newsgroup is
"moderated", I still see spam in a lot of groups.) I would rather let the
few people who wish to post spam to post it, while at the same time let some
of the gurus' posts come in. I feel sorry for Mr. Rubenking feeling that he
wasted his time. If you're watching Neil, thank you for your help.

-Luke Croteau

Re:Message forwarded from Neil J. Rubenking, Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine


Quote
>"Earl F. Glynn" quoted:

> I'm looking at borland.public.delphi.vcl.components.using, and I see  > that SOME people can see my posts! A fellow (gal?) named Heiko        > Ammermann had a question about HTreeItems, and we went back and forth > on it. Apparently people logging in through whatever-the-heck         > mailserver CAN see my posts, and those logging in specifically through > forums.inprise.com CAN'T. How stupid is that??

Had always thought it was the other way round, only posts sent to
forums.inprise.com were sure to appear in the appropriate place.

But I've been wondering for several weeks now what's wrong with the
inprise server. Downloading *all* messages for offline reading virtually
every day, I keep receiving lots of posts that are three weeks old,
orphaned posts, and the like.

Moreover, connection time is slow, even on weekends or at times when at
least in the U.S. everybody should be in bed.

Maybe an official could jump in here to explain what's going on?
_______
Andreas
Delphi 5.01 Pro, NT4.0 Sp5
mailto:p...@augsburg.netsurf.de

Re:Message forwarded from Neil J. Rubenking, Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine


Quote
Earl F. Glynn wrote:
> I'm looking at borland.public.delphi.vcl.components.using, and I see that
> SOME people can see my posts! A fellow (gal?) named Heiko Ammermann had a
> question about HTreeItems, and we went back and forth on it. Apparently
> people logging in through whatever-the-heck mailserver CAN see my posts, and
> those logging in specifically through forums.inprise.com CAN'T. How stupid
> is that??

I may be wrong, but I would guess that Mr. Rubenking's posts are only
seen on his server, i.e., is there any reason to think his posts make it
to other servers?

Quote
> OK, I see your thread. I must admit, I'm incredibly irked to have been
> wasting my time posting considered, serious responses that inprise-Borland
> summarily rejected, with no notice. I also track several of the
> microsoft.public.xxx newsgroups, and they have no such problem. Yes, stupid
> spam appears in these forums, but not more than is easily ignored.

I wonder if spam is the only issue. Having the groups live on Borland's
servers makes it possible to moderate the groups, if necessary. It is
amazing the nonsense that gets posted to many Usenet newsgroups. Sci.math
is a good (bad) example.

Quote
> My inclination is to stop wasting my time. If the situation changes, perhaps
> someone will drop me an email. And, perhaps you will be kind enough to post
> this message for me, since if I post it nobody will see it.

> - Neil J. Rubenking
> Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine

I'm a little surprised that Mr. Rubenking can't figure out how to post to
Borland's server.

--
David Marcus

Re:Message forwarded from Neil J. Rubenking, Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine


Quote
> Moreover, connection time is slow, even on weekends or at times when
at
> least in the U.S. everybody should be in bed.

Remember, these forums are for *programmers*. 2:00 am is when we are
the most awake :-)

--
- Jimmy                              -
--------------------------------------
Support my kindness by supporting my -
sponsor. http://tharpe.bigsmart.com  -
--------------------------------------
:

Re:Message forwarded from Neil J. Rubenking, Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine


Quote
> Remember, these forums are for *programmers*. 2:00 am is when we are
> the most awake :-)

<g>
But you forgot that this is the same all around the world ;-)

johannes
--
Please reply in this newsgroup only
 - SIP solutions -
http://www.sipsolutions.de/

Re:Message forwarded from Neil J. Rubenking, Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine


Quote
Luke Croteau wrote:

> I too think the spam is tolerable (Seeing as, even though this newsgroup is
> "moderated", I still see spam in a lot of groups.) I would rather let the
> few people who wish to post spam to post it, while at the same time let some

Well, I am one who is definitely happy to be spared from all the spam.

Maybe Borland could post a short notice once a week or so explaining that
the newsgroups must be accessed from forums.inprise.com, or write it under
the newsgroups section on their web site.

--
Josef Garvi
Eden Foundation, Skreav. 45B, S-311 72 Falkenberg, Sweden
Tel: +46 346-53157, Fax: +46 346-53171
E-Mail: jo...@eden-foundation.org
WWW: http://www.eden-foundation.org/

Re:Message forwarded from Neil J. Rubenking, Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine


It is written up in the newsgroups section of the web site already at
http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/genl_faqs.html.  Problem is is that some
outside server have decided to connect like a news reader, pull from the
newsgroup and users only see that those groups are on their local server and
never go to the Borland page to determine the rules of use for the newsgroups.

Quote
Josef Garvi wrote:

> Well, I am one who is definitely happy to be spared from all the spam.

> Maybe Borland could post a short notice once a week or so explaining that
> the newsgroups must be accessed from forums.inprise.com, or write it under
> the newsgroups section on their web site.

> --
> Josef Garvi
> Eden Foundation, Skreav. 45B, S-311 72 Falkenberg, Sweden
> Tel: +46 346-53157, Fax: +46 346-53171
> E-Mail: jo...@eden-foundation.org
> WWW: http://www.eden-foundation.org/

--
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
      (Please do not email me directly unless  asked. Thank You)
And so I patrol in the valley of the shadow of the tricolor
I must fear evil. For I am but mortal and mortals can only die.
Asking questions, pleading answers from the nameless
faceless watchers that stalk the carpeted  corridors of Whitehall.
             (Fish)

Re:Message forwarded from Neil J. Rubenking, Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine


Quote
>Jimmy wrote:

> Remember, these forums are for *programmers*. 2:00 am is when we are
> the most awake :-)

There are programmers around here? OK, one surprise every day. Still,
even if that's your excuse, then you should be in bed, say, at 6:00 am
Eastern (i.e. when I try to connect at 11:00 GMT +1). If you didn't do
it before, try and get used to it to keep my line free. <BG>
________
Andreas
Delphi 5.01 Pro, NT4.0 Sp5
mailto:p...@augsburg.netsurf.de

Re:Message forwarded from Neil J. Rubenking, Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine


On Fri, 26 May 2000 14:07:23 -0400, David Marcus <davidmar...@rcn.com>
wrote:

Quote
>I'm a little surprised that Mr. Rubenking can't figure out how to post to
>Borland's server.

I agree.  I don't know what the big deal is.  I have Outlook Express
set up to read from about five different servers.  All of them are
"home" servers, in that they aren't my ISP's news server.  

For those of you concerned about this, I will bring it up again with
Borland, and perhaps something will change.  With the conference
coming up, it is a very busy time at Borland for everyone, so I don't
think you'll see action on this in the immediate future.

Rest assured, however, that this has been very extensively discussed
and considered.  Perhaps bringing up the issue will change things.
Perhaps not.  But please don't think this very issue has been ignored
because it has not.

Re:Message forwarded from Neil J. Rubenking, Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine


Quote
"Nick Hodges" <nickhod...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:m2rtiscn9efncjbgn6o048tsn6ph2utms1@4ax.com...

Quote
> On Fri, 26 May 2000 14:07:23 -0400, David Marcus <davidmar...@rcn.com>
> wrote:

> >I'm a little surprised that Mr. Rubenking can't figure out how to post to
> >Borland's server.

> I agree.  I don't know what the big deal is.

I know that Neil and I should have known better.  But I'm amazed how
little sensitivity there is in these newsgroups to others that are affected
by this problem -- especially beginners and newcomers.  In the
separate thread in borland.public.delphi.non-technical, someone
else actually looked at the Compuserve newsgroups yesterday and
discovered someone else asking a question that only those in the
Compuserve version of the  borland newsgroups would see -- the post
was  not going to be seen on the "real" newsgroups and the question
quite likely never answered -- unless some other Compuserve user
was similarly  misconfigured and happened to answer the question.
My bet, look at most mirrors of borland newsgroups and you'll find
questions asked and unanswered, and very likely, frustrated
customers/users.
I still say "human factors" is largely being ignored.  Take a look at
this page:
http://www.borland.com/programs/assist/

It says
"Inprise provides Newsgroups as a user supported area to exchange
information, tips and techniques on our products for the global
community of Inprise customers."

Where does Borland say our "newsgroups" aren't like all the
other newsgroups you may be accustomed to working with.
Use ONLY our newsgroups or no one will see your post?
Where are the proper expectations that a user will
SUFFER consequences if the strict Borland rules are not
followed.

Or on this page:
http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/

Where does Borland say, ALL of our newsgroups are
different --{*word*222}up your configuration and no will
see your post, or answer your post.

Or, on this page:
http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/newsinfo.html

Where DOES BORLAND SAY, ALL OF OUR
NEWSGROUPS ARE DIFFERENT FROM NEARLY
ALL THE OTHER NEWSGROUPS IN THE UNIVERSE
THAT YOU MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH.
I am getting VERY FRUSTRATED by the lack of
understanding and appreciation for this problem.
Why am I getting so much grief for trying to help
others?

"Human Factors"  -- Where are they?  We're setting
many new users up for a fall, and I'm the "problem" for
shedding light on this problem.

Human communication is quite difficult, especially among
technical types.  We're really not trying to communicate
on this issue.

--
efg

Earl F. Glynn     E-mail:  EarlGl...@att.net
Overland Park, KS  USA

efg's Computer Lab:  http://www.efg2.com/Lab

Re:Message forwarded from Neil J. Rubenking, Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine


Earl,

I agree with you totally and you have my full support and respect in this
matter. The treatment dished up to you ranks with the worst I have seen on the
net. Please do not give up. Your contribution to the Delphi user community is
greatly appreciated, as is that of Neil Rubenking.
 One undeniable fact has emerged in this thread;
"Borland news groups do "not" behave in the same manner as other news groups".

Who at Borland is actually responsible for the news group system and why have
they not jumped into this thread and even attempted to justify their position.
A defence by outsiders and company groupies, consisting of thinly veiled
personal attacks and containing "no" constructive suggestions, only damages
the company's reputation. Borland has to realize how important these news
groups are to their future viability. Alianating people with considerable
knowledge who are willing to share is about as stupid a move as is imaginable.
All this talk about spam is a red herring which noboby believes.

One thing I find almost incomprehensible is that with all the knowledge and
experience on tap in this group, there is no one with an intemate knowledge of
NNTP and SMTP who is willing to offer any constructive suggestions as to why
this problem exists.

--
Bill Boulton
(using Delphi 3.02 Std on an OSR2 box)

Re:Message forwarded from Neil J. Rubenking, Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine


<much good stuff snipped>
I totally agree with you.  I think Earl has been treated
pretty shabbily.

Oz

Re:Message forwarded from Neil J. Rubenking, Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine


Quote
"Jeff Overcash (TeamB)" wrote:

> It is written up in the newsgroups section of the web site already at
> http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/genl_faqs.html.  Problem is is that some

Yes, but it wouldn't cost much to write it on a more visible place, such as
the main Nesgroup page...?
In general, one wouldn't read the FAQ before one comes across the problem
and understands what's happening, which is after some unnecessary
frustration.

Well, just a thought.

--
Josef Garvi
Eden Foundation, Skreav. 45B, S-311 72 Falkenberg, Sweden
Tel: +46 346-53157, Fax: +46 346-53171
E-Mail: jo...@eden-foundation.org
WWW: http://www.eden-foundation.org/

Re:Message forwarded from Neil J. Rubenking, Contributing Technical Editor, PC Magazine


On Sat, 27 May 2000 15:28:13 -0500, "Earl F. Glynn"

Quote
<EarlGl...@att.net> wrote:
>Where DOES BORLAND SAY, ALL OF OUR
>NEWSGROUPS ARE DIFFERENT FROM NEARLY
>ALL THE OTHER NEWSGROUPS IN THE UNIVERSE
>THAT YOU MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH.

Well, Netobjects and Turbopower are two newservers that act exactly
like Borland news servers.  Plenty of companies run their own servers
that don't connect to the normally unpleasant usenet.

If you want to access Borland's newsgroups, everything you want to
know about how to do it is right here --

http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/

Quote
>>screw up your configuration

Huh?

Quote

I am getting VERY FRUSTRATED by the lack of
understanding and appreciation for this problem.<<

Earl, lighten up.  As I have said, and as you don't seem to want to
accept, this "problem" is understood and it is appreciated.  

I'll try one more time -- connect to the Borland's newserver, and all
will be well.  If newbies can't figure that out, I don't know how
making the groups part of the usenet will fix it.

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