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Postings to "incorrect" Delphi newsgroups

Users in other countries might not necessarily have access to all of
the Delphi newsgroups. They therefore only see messages of the group
they have access to, often apparently this is delphi.databases.

Some ISP's in other parts provide a sub-set of Delphi groups only,
even I found that initially, and I am in England.

The question arises whether it might sometimes be a fair idea to post
to other delphi newsgroups as well. I certainly understand users who
like to post to all delphi groups, and simply ignore a message if I
have seen it before.

I find the users who correspond with me over the Delphi groups
wonderful and extremely intelligent. I have excellent correspondence
from both the .misc and .databases groups, whether the original
context was the "correct" group or not, about 50% of cases "incorrect"
approximately.

What's the general opinion?

Matthew

 

Re:Postings to "incorrect" Delphi newsgroups


Users in other countries might not necessarily have access to all of
the Delphi newsgroups. They therefore only see messages of the group
they have access to, often apparently this is delphi.databases.

Some ISP's in other parts provide a sub-set of Delphi groups only,
even I found that initially, and I am in England.

The question arises whether it might sometimes be a fair idea to post
to other delphi newsgroups as well. I certainly understand users who
like to post to all delphi groups, and simply ignore a message if I
have seen it before.

I find the users who correspond with me over the Delphi groups
wonderful and extremely intelligent. I have excellent correspondence
from both the .misc and .databases groups, whether the original
context was the "correct" group or not, about 50% of cases "incorrect"
approximately.

What's the general opinion?

Matthew

Re:Postings to "incorrect" Delphi newsgroups


Users in other countries might not necessarily have access to all of
the Delphi newsgroups. They therefore only see messages of the group
they have access to, often apparently this is delphi.databases.

Some ISP's in other parts provide a sub-set of Delphi groups only,
even I found that initially, and I am in England.

The question arises whether it might sometimes be a fair idea to post
to other delphi newsgroups as well. I certainly understand users who
like to post to all delphi groups, and simply ignore a message if I
have seen it before.

I find the users who correspond with me over the Delphi groups
wonderful and extremely intelligent. I have excellent correspondence
from both the .misc and .databases groups, whether the original
context was the "correct" group or not, about 50% of cases "incorrect"
approximately.

What's the general opinion?

Matthew

Re:Postings to "incorrect" Delphi newsgroups


Users in other countries might not necessarily have access to all of
the Delphi newsgroups. They therefore only see messages of the group
they have access to, often apparently this is delphi.databases.

Some ISP's in other parts provide a sub-set of Delphi groups only,
even I found that initially, and I am in England.

The question arises whether it might sometimes be a fair idea to post
to other delphi newsgroups as well. I certainly understand users who
like to post to all delphi groups, and simply ignore a message if I
have seen it before.

I find the users who correspond with me over the Delphi groups
wonderful and extremely intelligent. I have excellent correspondence
from both the .misc and .databases groups, whether the original
context was the "correct" group or not, about 50% of cases "incorrect"
approximately.

What's the general opinion?

Matthew

Re:Postings to "incorrect" Delphi newsgroups


On Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:11:41 GMT, Com...@lottery.powernet.co.uk  (Matthew)
wrote:

Quote
>Users in other countries might not necessarily have access to all of
>the Delphi newsgroups. They therefore only see messages of the group
>they have access to, often apparently this is delphi.databases.

I concur!

Most of our South African ISPs have all newsgroups of
comp.lang.pascal.delphi.* , but I know that others don't. Mostly people use
either the wide variety to post, including .databases, hence I skip that
post.

If it is a rather urgent matter, I mail the person personally, it usually
has results.

Happy coding

Stefan Paetow
ellipse data systems

== owner@ ==
== ellipse- ==
== data.com ==
== Fix the ==
== above for ==
== address ==

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=========================================================================
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=========================================================================

Re:Postings to "incorrect" Delphi newsgroups


Quote
Matthew wrote:

> The question arises whether it might sometimes be a fair idea to post
> to other delphi newsgroups as well. I certainly understand users who
> like to post to all delphi groups, and simply ignore a message if I
> have seen it before.

I agree, if I see only a message or two of this type during my session.
I disagree if I see 30-50 messages of this type during one hour session.

If we encourage to wide spread postings to several newsgroups, then we would
surely have those 30-50 messages in less than one year.

So my final opinion is, that I am strictly against *all* blind postings to several
newsgroups. This is a no-good-habit, and does not lead to durable and standing,
long term netiquetting rules.

Markku Nevalainen

Re:Postings to "incorrect" Delphi newsgroups


Quote
Markku Nevalainen <mneva...@netlife.fi> wrote:
> Matthew wrote:

> > The question arises whether it might sometimes be a fair idea to post
> > to other delphi newsgroups as well. I certainly understand users who
> > like to post to all delphi groups, and simply ignore a message if I
> > have seen it before.

There's good common human sense in this statement. However, think about the
readers too. Aren't you getting tired of reading the same message again and
again when scanning all groups? What you say conducts to the statement that one
group only would be the best: nothing to choose from, you get it all. Can you
imagine?

This same argument is held by those launching huge cross-posts ("money calls"
and the like). Hey, if I post to all groups, I've the best chance to be read...
Should we abandon the idea of newsgroups?

Quote
> I agree, if I see only a message or two of this type during my session.
> I disagree if I see 30-50 messages of this type during one hour session.

> If we encourage to wide spread postings to several newsgroups, then we would
> surely have those 30-50 messages in less than one year.

As we had, that's one of the reasons why the original 3 groups were split up...

Quote
> So my final opinion is, that I am strictly against *all* blind postings to several
> newsgroups. This is a no-good-habit, and does not lead to durable and standing,
> long term netiquetting rules.

Let's try, again, to enforce the rules of netiquette by not responding to
messages "off topic". Yes, I know how difficult this is, and I apologize, again
too, for not observing that myself always either. Sometimes, there's a quick
answer just helping someone out, and I don't always check at forehand that it
was correctly posted. Hell, I once provided an answer to someone about some
windows functionality, not realizing that I was in my wife's prefered group -
dealing with pottery :-)) - so I was miles off topic.

Jasper

Re:Postings to "incorrect" Delphi newsgroups


Quote
"Nello Sestini" <ne...@loxinfo.co.th> wrote:
> You are correct about this.  My server here (Thailand) carried only
> a few up until recently, and I'm still not sure I get them all
> (how would I know?).

Read the "weekly FAQ about ...", cross-posted :) in all groups on tuesday.

Quote
> > The question arises whether it might sometimes be a fair idea to post
> > to other delphi newsgroups as well. I certainly understand users who
> > like to post to all delphi groups, and simply ignore a message if I
> > have seen it before.

Even if you're an off-line reader, meaning you download all bodies trying to cut
down on phone costs?  

Quote
> Same here.  With a decent newsreader it's not that big a deal.
> I sympathize with posters who aren't sure what group
> their question belongs in:

> If you're writing a component that interacts with the database
> and uses some other imbedded components, and you're having a
> problem you don't quite understand - where to post?

I think anyone can sympathise in this case. Just post where you think you
should. Asking yourself where should be sufficiant. The point is about
cross-posting, without reflexion or willingly because you are not confident in
being read everywhere. But you know very well what is really off topic.

What are we doing btw? Where should all this be posted? Why is it only in
CLPD.databases? Shouldn't it be cross-posted, this time? Or taken to some
advocacy group? :-))

Quote
> The distinction among current divisions (the ones I know about
> anyway: misc/writing components/using components/databases) are
> generally disregarded by a large percentage of posters.

No, I don't agree. Generally speaking, at least in the database newsgroup I'm
scanning every day, most posts belongs there, while it's true that there's an
increasing load of others... :-((

Quote
> I wasn't present when (I presume) the original lone Delphi
> group was split into all the divisions we have now.  Maybe

3 when I joined, 1 1/2 year ago.

Quote
> it would help to know the reasons this was done.  IMHO now
> we would be better off (and have far fewer redundant posts)
> if all the delphi stuff were in one group.

Simple reason: no one can read a huge load of several hundreds of messages a
day. Chances to be read decrease, with an increasing chance of not getting an
answer at all... Chances of missing some really interesting message increase
too.

Quote
> In any case, given the situation we do have, I certainly wouldn't
> flame someone for posting to the "wrong" group, or
> for crossposting to several.

We should never flame each other down. After all, we're all colleagues, aren't
we? Mistakes happen. Doing it willingly wrong is another story.

Jasper

Re:Postings to "incorrect" Delphi newsgroups


Matthew <Com...@lottery.powernet.co.uk  > wrote in article
<5hco51$8e...@power2.power.net.uk>...

[talking about posts to the 'wrong' delphi ng ...]

Quote
> Some ISP's in other parts provide a sub-set of Delphi groups only,
> even I found that initially, and I am in England.

You are correct about this.  My server here (Thailand) carried only
a few up until recently, and I'm still not sure I get them all
(how would I know?).

Quote
> The question arises whether it might sometimes be a fair idea to post
> to other delphi newsgroups as well. I certainly understand users who
> like to post to all delphi groups, and simply ignore a message if I
> have seen it before.

Same here.  With a decent newsreader it's not that big a deal.
I sympathize with posters who aren't sure what group
their question belongs in:

If you're writing a component that interacts with the database
and uses some other imbedded components, and you're having a
problem you don't quite understand - where to post?

The distinction among current divisions (the ones I know about
anyway: misc/writing components/using components/databases) are
generally disregarded by a large percentage of posters.

I wasn't present when (I presume) the original lone Delphi
group was split into all the divisions we have now.  Maybe
it would help to know the reasons this was done.  IMHO now
we would be better off (and have far fewer redundant posts)
if all the delphi stuff were in one group.

In any case, given the situation we do have, I certainly wouldn't
flame someone for posting to the "wrong" group, or
for crossposting to several.

//ns

Re:Postings to "incorrect" Delphi newsgroups


Quote
Matthew wrote:
> The question arises whether it might sometimes be a fair idea to post
> to other delphi newsgroups as well. I certainly understand users who
> like to post to all delphi groups, and simply ignore a message if I
> have seen it before.

Hi,

I personally don't have any problem with postings in the 'wrong'
newsgroup (as long as it is a Delphi question it's OK).  

But what I really dislike is to encounter the same message crossposted
all over the delphi hierarchy.

As I could understand from previous postings is that c.l.d.misc (or is
it c.l.p.database) is practically distributed by most ISP's.  So if you
really want to crosspost (so the whole world could read your message)
just do it in 2 newsgroups.  The first one to the appropriate newsgroup,
and the second to the misc or database group (although 'misc' should be
preferred, provided it's all over the world available).  In that way
people who follow all the delphi newsgroups, like I do, could easily
discard c.l.d.misc (or database), without missing anything.

Is this a good idea ???

Kind regards,

Pascal

--

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ing. Pascal Dutilleul

{*word*137} software engineer (also via internet)

Pascal.Dutill...@ping.be                  Borland Connections Member
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Re:Postings to "incorrect" Delphi newsgroups


On 28 Mar 1997 22:44:16 GMT, dirks...@euronet.nl (Jasper Stil) wrote:

Quote
>> I wasn't present when (I presume) the original lone Delphi
>> group was split into all the divisions we have now.  Maybe

>3 when I joined, 1 1/2 year ago.

Oh hell, I still remember those three groups... We had wonderful times
then, didn't we Jasper?

Happy coding

Stefan Paetow
ellipse data systems

== owner@ ==
== ellipse- ==
== data.com ==
== Fix the ==
== above for ==
== address ==

-
=========================================================================
=  Any opinions here are my personal opinions, not those of my company  =
=          Home on the web: http://www.ellipse-data.com/                =
=        Delphi Super Page: http://minnie.iafrica.com/~delphi/          =
=  Delphi User Groups in South Africa: http://www.delphi.co.za/dugg/    =
=========================================================================

Re:Postings to "incorrect" Delphi newsgroups


Quote
On Sat, 29 Mar 1997 00:19:18 GMT, Stefan Paetow wrote:
> On 28 Mar 1997 22:44:16 GMT, dirks...@euronet.nl (Jasper Stil) wrote:

> >> I wasn't present when (I presume) the original lone Delphi
> >> group was split into all the divisions we have now.  Maybe

> >3 when I joined, 1 1/2 year ago.

> Oh hell, I still remember those three groups... We had wonderful times
> then, didn't we Jasper?

Quite so! But is it me, or just my imagination? The load growing far above my
head, I mean... :-))

Quote
> Happy coding

To you too, Stefan, of course.

Jasper

Re:Postings to "incorrect" Delphi newsgroups


Quote
Jasper Stil wrote:

<snip>

> Let's try, again, to enforce the rules of netiquette by not responding to
> messages "off topic". Yes, I know how difficult this is, and I apologize, again
> too, for not observing that myself always either. Sometimes, there's a quick
> answer just helping someone out, and I don't always check at forehand that it
> was correctly posted. Hell, I once provided an answer to someone about some
> windows functionality, not realizing that I was in my wife's prefered group -
> dealing with pottery :-)) - so I was miles off topic.

It may be helpful to the "offending" party if, when answering a post
that is violating a standard of netiquette, that you inform them of
their error.  I'm not a frequent reader/poster and likely violate said
standards on a regular basis.  If I'm not told, then in my ignorance, I
will continue to do so.

As to cross-posting, is it _ever_ admissable to post a message to
several groups?  Yesterday afternoon, I posted to
comp...delphi.databases and comp...delphi.misc because I had (have) an
urgent need.  I thought that I would be able to ask my question of more
people, and assumed that the urgency of it made it a "legitimate" need
to cross-post.  However, it was not a specific "database" request, so
was it an incorrect post?

One other thought.  I wonder if most cross-posts come from people who
don't read/contribute very often and turn to usenet when they have a
need of some sort.  I've not paid much attention to who common
cross-posters are. Do you see any trend?  

Ryan
--
=================================================
|               Ryan A. Carter                  |
|          racar...@mail.fs.cei.net             |
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=================================================

Re:Postings to "incorrect" Delphi newsgroups


In message <5hco51$8e...@power2.power.net.uk> - Com...@lottery.powernet.co.uk

Quote
(Matthew) writes:

>Users in other countries might not necessarily have access to all of
>the Delphi newsgroups. They therefore only see messages of the group
>they have access to, often apparently this is delphi.databases.

>Some ISP's in other parts provide a sub-set of Delphi groups only,
>even I found that initially, and I am in England.

>The question arises whether it might sometimes be a fair idea to post
>to other delphi newsgroups as well. I certainly understand users who
>like to post to all delphi groups, and simply ignore a message if I
>have seen it before.

IMHO, the only thing 'wrong' with your suggestion are the words 'as well'.
If somebody has no access to newsgroup X, I don't mind if he posts to Y
occasionally (but then, politely ask your ISP to hook up the missing NG as
well).
However, crossposts are already happening too much. I do not want to spend the
time, but it would be comparatively easy to point out too many of these. Even
if the question might apply to more than one group, what's wrong with posting
it to one group first? Are we or our questions so important that "WE NEED AN
ANSWER NOW!".

Your suggestion to "simply ignore a message if I have seen it before" does not
always work given the rather large message flow in the delphi areas. All too
often I found myself marking messages for retrieval, then finding out I
already did so in another group one or two days before.
To prevent that, I had to change my 'style' of reading these newsgroup: not
just go through the new headers when I have some time left, but collect them
for a couple of days and then go through all of them in one pass (so that I do
not have to remember what headers I read yesterday or the day before).
Frankly, I consider it ridiculous that *I* have to adapt because too many
people do not have the decency to be a bit less 'agressive' in their postings.

Ok, enough cents... ;-)

Bye,
Jan
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