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Dumping Pascal for C++, need advice.

I am dumping Turbo Pascal for a C++ compiler, for portability reasons, and the
fact that lately I've been turning to ASM for almost everything due to
inadequacies of the Pascal language.

I need MAJOR advice.  I only took a class in C once, so I don't know it very
well at all.  I need to know what the best compiler is to purchase, and what
books I should pick up to learn about it.

I have an interest in protected mode for DOS, Windows '95, and porting to other
platforms such as Macintosh.  I have a great interest in using OO features of
C++.

I'll be using it primarily to write high performance video games, so I need to
be able to easily link to 32-bit ASM code, etc.

Any advice one can give is appreciated!

Carl

P.S.  Also a book on protected mode programming would help too, since I know
just about nothing about it.

 

Re:Dumping Pascal for C++, need advice.


Re:Dumping Pascal for C++, need advice.


Advice?  Don't!

Re:Dumping Pascal for C++, need advice.


Quote
jwillar...@aol.com (JWillard44) wrote:
>Advice?  Don't!

How about some reasons?

What about portability, what about protected mode?  BP just isn't being
supported anymore.

Carl

Re:Dumping Pascal for C++, need advice.


Re:Dumping Pascal for C++, need advice.


Go out to a local university and spend $100 on Visual C++ Developer's Edition, then head for a bookstore and get "Learning Visual C++ 4.0 in 21 Days", then read the tutorials at http://www.iftech.com in their On-Line Tutorials section.

Once you've completed the on-line tutorials and have loaded VC++, take the lessons in the book step-by-step until you get where you want.

Mike Griffin
grif...@intpro.com

Quote
Carl Mueller (simo...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:

: I am dumping Turbo Pascal for a C++ compiler, for portability reasons, and the
: fact that lately I've been turning to ASM for almost everything due to
: inadequacies of the Pascal language.

: I need MAJOR advice.  I only took a class in C once, so I don't know it very
: well at all.  I need to know what the best compiler is to purchase, and what
: books I should pick up to learn about it.

: I have an interest in protected mode for DOS, Windows '95, and porting to other
: platforms such as Macintosh.  I have a great interest in using OO features of
: C++.

: I'll be using it primarily to write high performance video games, so I need to
: be able to easily link to 32-bit ASM code, etc.

: Any advice one can give is appreciated!

: Carl

: P.S.  Also a book on protected mode programming would help too, since I know
: just about nothing about it.

Re:Dumping Pascal for C++, need advice.


Quote
Carl Mueller (simo...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:

> : I am dumping Turbo Pascal for a C++ compiler, for portability reasons, and the
> : fact that lately I've been turning to ASM for almost everything due to
> : inadequacies of the Pascal language.

> : I need MAJOR advice.  I only took a class in C once, so I don't know it very
> : well at all.  I need to know what the best compiler is to purchase, and what
> : books I should pick up to learn about it.

> : I have an interest in protected mode for DOS, Windows '95, and porting to other
> : platforms such as Macintosh.  I have a great interest in using OO features of
> : C++.

DOS + Win 95 + Mac is an impossible combination with just one package.
For all the
x86 needs, you might as well go with WATCOM C/C++ (that'll get you every
flavour of
x86 support you can imagine.)  For the PPC Mac platform, I'm told
CodeWarrior is the
only way to go.

Quote
> : I'll be using it primarily to write high performance video games, so I need to
> : be able to easily link to 32-bit ASM code, etc.

Well for x86 stuff, WATCOM C/C++ will give you the inline assembly
without extra
saving and restoring of registers (while remaining safe) around you
inline assembly
to help maintain the highest possible performance.

Quote
> : Any advice one can give is appreciated!

> : P.S.  Also a book on protected mode programming would help too, since I know
> : just about nothing about it.

With WATCOM C/C++, you really don't need to know much about protected
mode.  DPMI
is about as seep as you need to go, and that's just if you need to do
SVGA.

--
Paul Hsieh
q...@xenon.chromatic.com
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/9498
Graphics Programmer
Chromatic Research

What I say and what my company says are not always the same thing

Re:Dumping Pascal for C++, need advice.


Re:Dumping Pascal for C++, need advice.


It seems to me this thread belongs in a c newsgroup, since people there are  
more likely to know about c (or c++) compilers.

I do know that the PC make-files for PGP 2.6.3i are written for Borland's C  
compiler and prior make-files were for Micro$oft's compiler, if that gives  
you any ideas about wide-spread use.

Also, Borland's C++ compiler has pretty much the same IDE as BP.

Chris Mathews

Re:Dumping Pascal for C++, need advice.


Replying to an article of Carl Mueller:

 CM> jwillar...@aol.com (JWillard44) wrote:

 >> Advice?  Don't!

 CM> How about some reasons?

 CM> What about portability, what about protected mode?  BP just isn't
 CM> being supported anymore.
Others are taking over here.. On other platforms and on DOS. Guess Borland
just looses too much money to be able to think clear and help us out here. (It
is afterall where they started.)

For DOS there is a 32bit DPMI compiler in devellopment: FPK (still very beta)
For OS/2 there are 2 compilers in devellopment: SpeedPascal (version 1.5)
                                                Virtual Pascal (I thought
version 1.0, anybody correct me here if I am wrong..)
(Both OS/2 compilers do textmode too)

CU, Erik!
Er...@hcc-gron.idn.nl
_personal_ reactions preferrably by e-mail.
PGP key available by e-mail

 *** I am slowly getting there, but Sibyl is getting me there faster :-)
 *** (Sibyl=a devellopment-tool) Q's e-mail me
--
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

Re:Dumping Pascal for C++, need advice.


Quote
In article <0a2_9607110...@idn.nl> Er...@hcc-gron.idn.nl (Erik Huelsmann) writes:
>Replying to an article of Carl Mueller:
> CM> jwillar...@aol.com (JWillard44) wrote:
> >> Advice?  Don't!
> CM> How about some reasons?
> CM> What about portability, what about protected mode?  BP just isn't
> CM> being supported anymore.
>Others are taking over here.. On other platforms and on DOS. Guess Borland
>just looses too much money to be able to think clear and help us out here. (It
>is afterall where they started.)
>For DOS there is a 32bit DPMI compiler in devellopment: FPK (still very beta)
>For OS/2 there are 2 compilers in devellopment: SpeedPascal (version 1.5)
>                                                Virtual Pascal (I thought
>version 1.0, anybody correct me here if I am wrong..)
>(Both OS/2 compilers do textmode too)

Another consideration is GPC.  It works under DOS, Linux, OS/2, other Unix,
etc.  It GNU, and I believe the source is available.  If you want more
information about it, the main site for distribution is kampi.hut.fi.  Also,
stay tuned here, because there should be an official announcement about it
any day now.

(BTW, and since it's an extention of GCC, I figure it ought to be possible
to cross over and work between both C++ and Pascal.)

Quote
>CU, Erik!
>Er...@hcc-gron.idn.nl
>_personal_ reactions preferrably by e-mail.
>PGP key available by e-mail
> *** I am slowly getting there, but Sibyl is getting me there faster :-)
> *** (Sibyl=a devellopment-tool) Q's e-mail me
>--
>| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

--
Scott Earnest          | We now return you to our regularly scheduled |
siny...@{*word*104}space.org | chaos and mayhem. . . .                      |

Re:Dumping Pascal for C++, need advice.


Re:Dumping Pascal for C++, need advice.


Quote
On Tue, 9 Jul 1996, Carl Mueller wrote:
> Any advice one can give is appreciated!

Don't do it.  I was a refugee from Borland Pascal last year.  I really
liked using TurboVision and ObjectWindows and other Pascal related tools.
But Borland chose to focus exclusively on Delphi for Windows and hitched
all their wagons to Microsoft.  I had been developing for DOS, DPMI, and
Windows v3.x for several years.  I tried OS/2 Warp and wanted to include
it as a target.  That meant no more Borland Pascal investments.  But I
found a better alternative and that's probably what you are trying to do.

So, whether
1) You are familiar with a Pascal dialect and you want to save time when
   learning a second language.
2) You'd like portability to other hardware platforms and operating
   systems.
3) You want to be able to interface to or from code of other languages
   like assembler, C, C++, Java, etc..
4) You want to be able to write code from low-level to high-level.
5) You want to be able to read the code you spent time and money on.
6) You want to grow as a programmer and have the option of using the
   latest beneficial techniques.
7) You want a proven technology that offers you increasingly optimal code
   reliability and cost savings for the whole software development cycle.

--  Then consider learning the Ada 95 ISO(8652:1995) language.  --

See ftp://cs.nyu.edu/pub/gnat

There you'll find the GNU based freeware Ada 95 compiler system complete
with source code and manuals of the language standard & rationale.  The
system is called GNAT and it supports most every major operating system.
Most implementations of GNAT v3.05 use GCC v2.7.2 but the DPMI one uses
DJGPP v2.0 instead.  The OS/2 one uses EMX.  GNAT is even on the Mac now.
GNAT is also distributed by various CD-ROM makers (such as Walnut Creek).

There are freeware libraries supporting GPP or GCC that GNAT can use.
There are some game development libraries too.  DJGPP has a newsgroup
comp.os.msdos.djgpp that has alot of support and activity.

For the best links to Ada 95 related stuff go to the
Home of the Brave Ada Programmers (HBAP)
http://lglwww.epfl.ch/Ada/

Want to experiment with Ada 95 online compiling?  Use the WebAda server
http://sw-eng.falls-church.va.us/AdaIC/compilers/webada/

For more assistance join comp.lang.ada and the Gnat mailing list.

Some recent books:
     * J. Barnes. "Programming in Ada 95".
       Addison-Wesley. ISBN 0-20-187700-7.
       702 pp. Paperback. 1996

     * N. Cohen. "Ada as a Second Language".
       2nd ed., McGraw-Hill. ISBN 0-07-011607-5.
       1133 pp. Paperback. 1996

     * Feldman & Koffman. "Ada 95 Problem Solving and Program Design".
       2nd ed., Addison-Wesley. ISBN 0-20-187009-6.  1996
       http://www.aw.com/cseng/authors/feldman/cs1-ada2e/cs1-ada2e.html

     * M. Feldman. Software Construction and Data Structures with Ada 95.
       Addison-Wesley. ISBN 0-20-188795-9.  1996
       http://www.aw.com/cseng/authors/feldman/cs2-ada/cs2-ada.html

For more book lists see the
Ada Resources for Educators and Students
http://www.acm.org/sigada/education

I am using GNAT for OS/2, and GNAT for DPMI.  Writing games is an
enjoyable way to learn about Ada multitasking and classwide programming.

And I am willing to bet that the average Ada programmer earns more money
than the average C or C++ programmer.  The reason is because there are
presently hundreds more Ada jobs listed as available than there are
applicants.  There just are not enough Ada software developers to meet
the demand and the demand still grows due to the merits of Ada 95 for
software engineering.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- John Howard <jhow...@sky.net>               -- Team Ada  Team OS/2 --

Re:Dumping Pascal for C++, need advice.


My opinion is quite the opposite of John's.  Ada was developed primarily as a language to be used by the Department of Defense.  Many of Dod's largest (recent) projects have been developed using Ada, but there has been a recent trend by Dod to relax this "rule" and allow C++ to be used in lieu of Ada.  Since C++ allows many of the reusability aspects that Ada touts, and since it is DEFINITELY faster, more compact, and less dependent on hardware, C/C++ makes a better all-around choice for newer Dod designs.

I, too am a "Pascal-er" from way back, but have come to realize that the trend over the past several years has been towards C -- NOT to Pascal (Delphi or otherwise) and definitely NOT to ADA.  As evidence of this, take a look at virtually any "jobs" newsgroup you choose and count the number of openings for C++ versus Ada or any other language.  No contest.  C++ has it hands down, in many cases by ratios exceeding 100-to-1.  While the pay for that rarer Ada job may be very nice, the pay for a good C++ engin
eer with UNIX experience is on par, if not better...

My apologies to readers in ..pascal.borland who don't believe this discussion belongs in this newsgroup.  It was started here, and this is simply a continuation.

My advice is to stick with your original plan:  learn C++.  You can't miss.

Michael Griffin
Internet Promotions, Inc.
Author of "Marketing Your Software Skills", (C)1992 Micom Corporation
grif...@intpro.com

Quote
John Howard (jhow...@sky.net) wrote:

: On Tue, 9 Jul 1996, Carl Mueller wrote:
: > Any advice one can give is appreciated!

: Don't do it.  I was a refugee from Borland Pascal last year.  I really
: liked using TurboVision and ObjectWindows and other Pascal related tools.
: But Borland chose to focus exclusively on Delphi for Windows and hitched
: all their wagons to Microsoft.  I had been developing for DOS, DPMI, and
: Windows v3.x for several years.  I tried OS/2 Warp and wanted to include
: it as a target.  That meant no more Borland Pascal investments.  But I
: found a better alternative and that's probably what you are trying to do.

: So, whether
: 1) You are familiar with a Pascal dialect and you want to save time when
:    learning a second language.
: 2) You'd like portability to other hardware platforms and operating
:    systems.
: 3) You want to be able to interface to or from code of other languages
:    like assembler, C, C++, Java, etc..
: 4) You want to be able to write code from low-level to high-level.
: 5) You want to be able to read the code you spent time and money on.
: 6) You want to grow as a programmer and have the option of using the
:    latest beneficial techniques.
: 7) You want a proven technology that offers you increasingly optimal code
:    reliability and cost savings for the whole software development cycle.

: --  Then consider learning the Ada 95 ISO(8652:1995) language.  --

: See ftp://cs.nyu.edu/pub/gnat

: There you'll find the GNU based freeware Ada 95 compiler system complete
: with source code and manuals of the language standard & rationale.  The
: system is called GNAT and it supports most every major operating system.
: Most implementations of GNAT v3.05 use GCC v2.7.2 but the DPMI one uses
: DJGPP v2.0 instead.  The OS/2 one uses EMX.  GNAT is even on the Mac now.
: GNAT is also distributed by various CD-ROM makers (such as Walnut Creek).

: There are freeware libraries supporting GPP or GCC that GNAT can use.
: There are some game development libraries too.  DJGPP has a newsgroup
: comp.os.msdos.djgpp that has alot of support and activity.

: For the best links to Ada 95 related stuff go to the
: Home of the Brave Ada Programmers (HBAP)
: http://lglwww.epfl.ch/Ada/

: Want to experiment with Ada 95 online compiling?  Use the WebAda server
: http://sw-eng.falls-church.va.us/AdaIC/compilers/webada/

: For more assistance join comp.lang.ada and the Gnat mailing list.

: Some recent books:
:      * J. Barnes. "Programming in Ada 95".
:        Addison-Wesley. ISBN 0-20-187700-7.
:        702 pp. Paperback. 1996

:      * N. Cohen. "Ada as a Second Language".
:        2nd ed., McGraw-Hill. ISBN 0-07-011607-5.
:        1133 pp. Paperback. 1996

:      * Feldman & Koffman. "Ada 95 Problem Solving and Program Design".
:        2nd ed., Addison-Wesley. ISBN 0-20-187009-6.  1996
:        http://www.aw.com/cseng/authors/feldman/cs1-ada2e/cs1-ada2e.html

:      * M. Feldman. Software Construction and Data Structures with Ada 95.
:        Addison-Wesley. ISBN 0-20-188795-9.  1996
:        http://www.aw.com/cseng/authors/feldman/cs2-ada/cs2-ada.html

: For more book lists see the
: Ada Resources for Educators and Students
: http://www.acm.org/sigada/education

: I am using GNAT for OS/2, and GNAT for DPMI.  Writing games is an
: enjoyable way to learn about Ada multitasking and classwide programming.

: And I am willing to bet that the average Ada programmer earns more money
: than the average C or C++ programmer.  The reason is because there are
: presently hundreds more Ada jobs listed as available than there are
: applicants.  There just are not enough Ada software developers to meet
: the demand and the demand still grows due to the merits of Ada 95 for
: software engineering.

: ------------------------------------------------------------------------
: -- John Howard <jhow...@sky.net>               -- Team Ada  Team OS/2 --

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