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Re: New ownership = No excuse


2008-05-14 07:22:34 PM
delphi172
Arthur Hoornweg writes:
Quote
D-Fan writes:

>Just fixing Kylix by integrating the latest known updates, etc. from
>Andreas and enabling it to install and run on the latest platforms
>from Redhat, Ubuntu, and Suse would be a sufficient market. I would
>gladly pay for this again.

Unfortunately CLX <>VCL.
It would be great to have a cross-platform Delphi with VCL to support
Windows, Linux and Mac.


Personally, i couldn't care less if the ide runs on other platforms.
I'd just be happy to cross compile and remotely debug.
 
 

Re: New ownership = No excuse

Quote
Well, you seem so sure, that is why I asked. Again, if you know stuff
we don't know, I would love to hear it.

Obviously Nick I have no idea, I am just giving an opinion. Like I said,
I hope im wrong and all these things come to fruition. I will be the
first one online ordering BDS.
You *do* have a limited budget. A significant part of that budget
currently goes towards supporting .net and c++. Obviously, if you did
not have to support these two things, you could spend more r&d on native
delphi support.
 

Re: New ownership = No excuse

Quote
I was just asking, because if Mike has any good ideas on us becoming
better off by dropping a profitable, fairly high margin product, I'm
all ears. ;-)

Ok drop the delphi product line then :D
I didn't realize BCB sold so well. that is great.
 

Re: New ownership = No excuse

On Tue, 13 May 2008 21:40:18 +0100, Mike Margerum <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
What would you rather have in the box? a c++ compiler you never use and
(limited) .net support or a native tool that cross compiled to
linux/windows mobile, 64 bit support, unicode, improved pascal language
support (generics, optional garbage collection)?

I contend that if they hadn't wasted so much time chasing .net and
possibly C++ builder, we could have all these things. Just my opinion
of course.
I think their customer base would be half what it is today if they hadn't
invented C++ Builder. While developing C++ applications in the IDE, it
naturally leads you to break down the app into the correct building blocks
for future maintainability. Long live BCB! Delphi, too, gets my praise for
breaking apps down correctly, but Pascal isn't a language with
cross-platform in mind. I only use C++ for my commercial apps. I can
program in Delphi too, but I prefer the syntax of VCL C++, coming from a C
and Clipper background.
--
Mark Jacobs
www.dkcomputing.co.uk
 

Re: New ownership = No excuse

David Dean [CodeGear] pretended :
Quote
In article <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, "Rita" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>
writes:

>C++ guys lurking in Delphi.non.tech responding to a revive Kylix
>thread,

Posting in the newsgroups is a personal conviction of mine because I
was a customer before I became an Employee.

>Have Codegear got a Delphi QA Engineer.

There are may.
There are *many*
PMFJI, I thought this was an important point.
Brad.
 

Re: New ownership = No excuse

After serious thinking David Dean [CodeGear] wrote :
Quote

>C++Builder has typically sold more copies that Delphi per version

This quote is from Michael Swindell here:

<groups.google.com/group/borland.public.cppbuilder.non-technical/m
sg/23d91efbefb1a02e>

or

<tinyurl.com/4834xl>
This is a fascinating post. I would
never have guessed.
Brad.
 

Re: New ownership = No excuse

Mike Margerum writes:
Quote
It's about going multiplatform to support all of these new form
factors that are coming out and will soon be eating microsoft's (and
your) lunch.
Is it? What market research or other information do you have that
would make me think so? I am all ears.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: New ownership = No excuse

Mike Margerum writes:
Quote
A significant part of that budget currently goes towards supporting
.net and c++.
Does it? I wasn't aware of that.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: New ownership = No excuse

David Dean [CodeGear] writes:
Quote
In article <482ad271$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>,
Mike Margerum <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:

>How are you going to add support for all of this in BCB? More
>non standard C++ keywords?

Actually, we have some great ideas on how to support Delphi-isms
with Standard C++. This is long term planning, but just one example
of Alisdair putting some e{*word*277}ment back into the C++ toolset.
Alisdair apparently still has a soft spot for Delphi. IIRC, he started
with Delphi but then slowly moved to C++, but still feels some things
were better in Delphi.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] www.teamb.com
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of
doubts." -- Bertrand Russell
 

Re: New ownership = No excuse

Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
Mike Margerum writes:

>A significant part of that budget currently goes towards supporting
>.net and c++.

Does it? I wasn't aware of that.

Oh, come on Nick, now you are being unreasonable.
Mike has a valid point, even if I, as a C++ Builder user, don't agree
with his proposed solution.
You (CodeGear collectively) do have limited resources. You do put
substantial effort into supporting development using .net and C++ (at
least that is what you're marketing people tell us). That effort does
cost you money, and that money is therefore no longer available for
further development of Win32 Delphi specific technologies. You can not be
all things to all people.
Even if you aren't aware of the exact details of the allocation of
product development funds to the various personalities in the IDE, you
had to know C++ development costs are not an insignificant part of the
total.
Dennis Cote
 

Re: New ownership = No excuse

Dave Nottage [TeamB] writes:
Quote

I expect he is, which I also expect was his point

Ah, I see. The sarcasm is obvious after you point it out.
Dennis Cote
 

Re: New ownership = No excuse

Dennis Cote writes:
Quote
You (CodeGear collectively) do have limited resources. You do put
substantial effort into supporting development using .net and C++ (at
least that is what you're marketing people tell us). That effort does
cost you money, and that money is therefore no longer available for
further development of Win32 Delphi specific technologies.
Seems to me that is only half the equation. Presumably, the costs
involved in supporting .NET and C++ lead to greater revenues, which in
turn contributes not only to future support of those products, but to
the overall health of the company as well.
 

Re: New ownership = No excuse

Mike Margerum writes:
Quote
What would you rather have in the box? a c++ compiler you never use
and (limited) .net support or a native tool that cross compiled to
linux/windows mobile, 64 bit support, unicode, improved pascal
language support (generics, optional garbage collection)?
Logical fallacy - false dilemma.
 

Re: New ownership = No excuse

Dennis Cote writes:
Quote

Even if you aren't aware of the exact details of the allocation of
product development funds to the various personalities in the IDE,
you had to know C++ development costs are not an insignificant part
of the total.
I guess we can play semantics, and argue of "significant".
One of the great things about C++ is that almost everything we do on
the Delphi "side" benefits C++, and vice versa. As a result, the C++
product is highly leveraged, and thus quite a nice product for us.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: New ownership = No excuse

Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
argue of "significant".
"argue the meaning of 'significant.'"
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges