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Re: Thank you Borland!


2005-12-09 10:11:09 PM
delphi246
Tony Caduto <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
<43997f63$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>
Quote
It's all what you are used to that makes you productive in the long run.
That is SO true. The same applies to "usability" and "intuitive" as well.
--
***Free Your Mind***
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Re: Thank you Borland!

Michal Zaborowski writes:
Quote
Bernhard Geyer writes:

>theo schrieb:


[...]

>
>Kylix was one Reason why the .NET-Support came so bad and wasn't very
>good in the first releases (D8 and with less problems in D2005). Kylix
>was also hitting the VCL-Quality cause of many rewriting in Delphi 6 in
>Base-CLX.

>
Francesco talked about living Windows and staying with Borland.
IMHO Kylix was very good idea... The only problem was realization.
Are you talking about leaving (abandoning) Windows? and is it execution
what is the only problem?
 

Re: Thank you Borland!

Quote
>I completely agree. Kylix was a huge mistake: instead of fewer high
>quality products Borland produced more sub-par ones (in that period
>hardly any innovation on the W32 front, shaky .NET transition).
>Borland stretched its resources too thin that hurt all products. I can
>just hope that it is not a mortal wound...


Uhm, we haven't still seen Linux on desktop, but I don't think that .NET
development outside server-side and, maybe, United States, is a so big
success...
So, if Borland - and us - have to waste time and money in some new way
of developing, I'd prefer to invest in a REAL cross-platform
technology, and not in transforming Windows apps in Windows+NET apps.
IMHO, Kylix wasn't a success, additionally for low penetration of linux
in desktop market, because of its poor quality and for CLX instead of
VCL, that makes impossible simple recompilation and reuse of thousands
of components available on internet already made for Delphi....
Someone said .NET + Mono is the answer. Have you tried to execute some
GUI app in Linux + Mono + WINE ? :-)
 

Re: Thank you Borland!

As i know, Microsoft has a part of Borland. So i think that they wouldn't want to abondon theirselves :)
Francesco Consumi <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote

>Thank you good old Borland for BDS 2006, delphi now is came back.
>Now if revamp the VCL with a good RTTI and majour use of interface (like the
>Dot Net Framework for instance), a native persistance to XML (not to pascal
>like language see dfm) port the good ECO to Win32 and a majour access to
>the new microsoft tecnology (see avalon, winfx, ecc..) than the circle will
>be close.

...and we would thank you, Borland, if just for a minute you leave the
MS-bandwagon and you resume some support to Kylix, for all of us who
like to abandon Windows, Vista, dotNET and so on to its own device.....

Thanks for all.
 

Re: Thank you Borland!

Hi!
Quote
>port the good ECO to Win32

IMHO that would be a huge waste of resources.
You are forgetting that Delphi code can be compiled to
either .NET or W32. The amount of resources "waisted"
here is under a very big question mark.
Regards!
Atmapuri
 

Re: Thank you Borland!

Rusic writes:
Quote
As i know, Microsoft has a part of Borland. So i think that they
wouldn't want to abondon theirselves :)
A tiny chunk of *non-voting* shares - and I am not certain they even still
own that.
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Re: Thank you Borland!

Rusic <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes <4399a78b$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>
Quote
As i know
Or not.
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Re: Thank you Borland!

Alan Garny writes:
Quote
I was among those who were very interested in Kylix, but as soon as it came
out my interest in it vanished straight away. Why? CLX...
I had an interest in Kylix. That changed the more and more I tried to
use Linux. Bleh.
 

Re: Thank you Borland!

Francesco Consumi writes:
Quote
Someone said .NET + Mono is the answer. Have you tried to execute
some GUI app in Linux + Mono + WINE ? :-)
But the MONO team is now writing Windows.Forms without using Wine. See
www.mono-project.com/WinForms
Very promising IMNSHO. Almost makes me want to install Linux again.
It's only been three years since I last looked at it... ;)
--
Jon Robertson
Borland Certified Advanced Delphi 7 Developer
MedEvolve, Inc
www.medevolve.com
 

Re: Thank you Borland!

Atmapuri writes:
Quote
You are forgetting that Delphi code can be compiled to
either .NET or W32. The amount of resources "waisted"
here is under a very big question mark.
IIRC, ECO is based on the .NET Framework, not on VCL.NET. If based
strictly on VCL.NET, it might be portable to Win32. But if based on
.NET Framework, then those that want ECO have an answer: Use .NET.
I've not been impressed with ECO from the presentations I have seen. I
might find it useful for prototyping, which I could do in .NET anyway.
Then I would code the real project in Win32. ;)
--
Jon Robertson
Borland Certified Advanced Delphi 7 Developer
MedEvolve, Inc
www.medevolve.com
 

Re: Thank you Borland!

Tony Caduto writes:
Quote
I code in C# now and then, and I don't find .net more productive.
Maybe in some very specific areas like web services or ASP.net, but
for everything else I'd have to strongly disagree.
And I would have to strongly disagree with your disagreement :-)
I discover classes all the time that make the little things I do much
easier, and with much less code. Two examples I discovered recently are
the BitConverter class (great for working with byte streams), and
TraceListener class (for re-directing Debug or Trace output).
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
cc.borland.com/Author.aspx
QualityCentral. The best way to bug Borland about bugs.
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Re: Thank you Borland!

Quote
>...and we would thank you, Borland, if just for a minute you leave the
>MS-bandwagon and you resume some support to Kylix, for all of us who
>like to abandon Windows, Vista, dotNET and so on to its own device.....
>



+1
+1
 

Re: Thank you Borland!

Quote
Kylix was one Reason why the .NET-Support came so bad and wasn't very
good in the first releases (D8 and with less problems in D2005). Kylix
was also hitting the VCL-Quality cause of many rewriting in Delphi 6 in Base-CLX.
The latter part isn't true. Kylix was the reason that the RTL and VCL quality
got vastly improved. A lot of unclean win32-specific implementations got
replaced or moved.
This also benefitted .NET.
Simon
 

Re: Thank you Borland!

Quote
You might as well blame JBuilder, which IMO drained way too much resources
from Delphi R&D.

A company like Borland ought to have enough resources for both Kylix and
Delphi/CPPBldr. It is worrying that they only seem able to commit to a
single task at a time.
I fully agree. Lack of assigned developer resources is the key. This didn't
only affect Kylix, the Win32 platform also is suffering from this (think
Unicode and 64Bit).
Quote
I have no personal interest in Kylix, but would very much like to see its
return. (Albeit in a more VCL-friendly fashion)
Me too.
Simon
 

Re: Thank you Borland!

Quote
I am definitely still interested in Kylix, or more to the point, being able
to use base VCL and RTL in pascal code on Linux. At this stage I am not really
concerned with UI, but for server stuff, Linux is a great resource.
Yeah, definately. Over here in central Europe, in datacenters Linux has a market share
of>90%. Even with *sold* servers (IOW hardware with pre-installed Linux) Linux
already has a market share of ~30% world-wide.
From my own business I know that usage of Linux servers has drastically increased in
the past few years. Over 80% of all copies we sell of our enterprise server software
are Linux versions. Simply because Linux boxes are easier to maintain, more stable
and offer far better performance and scalability with server apps. Oh, and well,
they are cheap and you there are tons of skilled Linux admins on the job market.
When it comes to web applications, multitier-apps, database backend apps and all that,
Borland currently is right now giving up a gigantic developing market space, instead
of simply re-branding Kylix...
Simon