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Starting ove :( ... i need a OPF sugestion


2004-10-02 04:51:04 AM
delphi17
I read in the MDA newsgroups that Bold not go into the DiamonBack 9 (and
maybe is ship later a support package).
ECO 2 look good but i don't wanna be tied to .NET. I don't dislike .NET
but i prefer the ability to go from win32-.nET and back, the main reason
to get D9, anyway. Also, i need ship applications where .NET is a no
option, so i need solution with a foot in each side...
So, after start using Bold, i consider dump it now (i don't can wait for
a *maybe* in D9 and no certain of have a clear path to 10. My solutions
can expand years, because are ERP like systems), when have a chance and
not a big commitment to it. By fortune, i only use it for OPF things so
is not a big deal by now. I looking for:
- OR mapping
- Build the database from the model/class info (a wish, but can live if
not have it)
- Support win32. Safe/clear route to .NET if need
- Support of Interbase/Firebird and Sql Server minimun
- Fit in the price of Delphi PRO + the tool (my first intention was buy
D9 architect but if is a Dead Bold, then why pay more? Can help me save
some bucks....)
- Support for legacy database is not important
- Have your own GUI controls are irrelevant
- ABSOLUTE: Be safe to operate in N-tier, multi-tier environment
- Nice have a path to Kilyk...
Thanks...
 
 

Re:Starting ove :( ... i need a OPF sugestion

In article <415dc191$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
says...
Quote
I read in the MDA newsgroups that Bold not go into the DiamonBack 9 (and
maybe is ship later a support package).

ECO 2 look good but i don't wanna be tied to .NET. I don't dislike .NET
but i prefer the ability to go from win32-.nET and back, the main reason
to get D9, anyway. Also, i need ship applications where .NET is a no
option, so i need solution with a foot in each side...

bzzzzzt. Sorry. Wrong. Henrik said quite clearly in other fora and at
Borcon that it won't be in Diamondback out of the gate. He indicated
that it will be in a point release "some time beyond Diamondback". Just
not enough resources at the moment and a few other "show stoppers [in
ECO]"
Search mda.general and these are two statements by Henrik:
<quote>
Bold will not ship with Diamondback. When shipping, beyond Diamondback,
it will be mainly fixes. /HeJ
</quote>
<quote>
To set expectations right, Bold will not be included in Diamondback.
This was a hard decision, but necessary since we want to plug as many of
the aforementioned ECO 'show stoppers' as possible. However, we do plan
to release an updated Bold at some time beyond Diamondback.
Regarding the remaining 'show stopper', source code, you should expect
more source shipping with ECO II than ECO I, and more source in the
updated Bold than in the current one.
</quote>
Just to set the record straight.
--
John
Life is complex. It has real and imaginary parts
 

Re:Starting ove :( ... i need a OPF sugestion

"mamcx" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>a écrit dans le message de news:
415dca09$XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
Quote
That i read too. However, i understand that :

1- Still, no clear route to ECO. Also, no support in ASP.NET, because
Bold is a dead end (by now) to .NET
2- No important code is made to Bold, in the sense of new things,
improve things. Only fixes...
3- No clarity about how much is the "wait" for Bold. If for some reason
is not-go in D9 and get it in D10, then pay for Architect is a bad
move.... because i don't wanna use ECO IF is not in the win32 side too.
If this is the case, i prefer look around....
Why don't you look at writing your own OPF? It really isn't that hard; see
the articles on my website:
www.carterconsulting.org.uk
Joanna
Consultant Software Engineer
TeamBUG support for UK-BUG
TeamMM support for ModelMaker
 

Re:Starting ove :( ... i need a OPF sugestion

That i read too. However, i understand that :
1- Still, no clear route to ECO. Also, no support in ASP.NET, because
Bold is a dead end (by now) to .NET
2- No important code is made to Bold, in the sense of new things,
improve things. Only fixes...
3- No clarity about how much is the "wait" for Bold. If for some reason
is not-go in D9 and get it in D10, then pay for Architect is a bad
move.... because i don't wanna use ECO IF is not in the win32 side too.
If this is the case, i prefer look around....
I feel like the architect version is the most unstable of all. Come with
nice things sometimes, some are semi-finished things and main things are
droped in the next version....
 

Re:Starting ove :( ... i need a OPF sugestion

In article <415dca09$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
says...
Quote
That i read too. However, i understand that :

1- Still, no clear route to ECO. Also, no support in ASP.NET, because
Bold is a dead end (by now) to .NET
Not a dead end. The difference twixt and ECO and Bold are non trivial,
mainly because of the rather big difference twixt Reflection (in .NET)
and RTTI in Delphi. However, I did hear rumblings that you may be able
to export your Bold model as XMI and then import that into .NET. Don't
know if I *really* heard that, or *thought* I heard that, or it was
someting I *wanted* to hear, if you catch my drift.
Quote
2- No important code is made to Bold, in the sense of new things,
improve things. Only fixes...
That's not clear from what I heard Henrik say.
Quote
3- No clarity about how much is the "wait" for Bold. If for some reason
is not-go in D9 and get it in D10, then pay for Architect is a bad
move.... because i don't wanna use ECO IF is not in the win32 side too.
If this is the case, i prefer look around....

I feel like the architect version is the most unstable of all. Come with
nice things sometimes, some are semi-finished things and main things are
droped in the next version....

--
John
Life is complex. It has real and imaginary parts
 

Re:Starting ove :( ... i need a OPF sugestion

I'm looking for almost 1-2 years!
However, i expect that by now this problem was "solved" enough. I think
that Bold is great, and becuse I am a solo programer want to cut some
time. If is not because is by now a unclear choice, and because not
wanna put all my eggs in .NET, puttin ECO out, i don't think in it
anymore...
In the other hand, i have confidence that can do this kind of job, but
is not funny if can spend 500 US in something and insteand spend 1-2
years of work.
Now, I am considering use RemObjects DataAbstract and try to add the
necesary things for become it in a OPF... At least is done some parts of
the job (and for example, the procesor of Sql in a abstract way, plus be
n-tier ready)
What guys think about TechInsite OPF framework or Select OPF???
 

Re:Starting ove :( ... i need a OPF sugestion

Quote
1- Still, no clear route to ECO. Also, no support in ASP.NET
ECO II will support ASP.NET
But Bold and ECO do some things quite differently, so moving code form
one to the other might not be that straightforward.
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
_______________________________________________
Jim Cooper XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Falafel Software www.falafelsoft.co.uk
_______________________________________________
 

Re:Starting ove :( ... i need a OPF sugestion

Hi all,
Recently we decide put the DePO - Delphi persistent Objects to works.
Cesar Romero request to Cosimo if we could be work at DePO and Cosimo
accept, we are brazilian guys (for this sorry my english). The DePO
has:
YES - OR mapping
YES - Build the database from the model/class info (a wish, but can
live if
not have it)
YES - Support win32.
NOT YET - Safe/clear route to .NET if need
YES - Support of Interbase/Firebird and Sql Server minimun
FREE AND OPEN SOURCE - Fit in the price of Delphi PRO + the tool (my
first intention was buy D9 architect but if is a Dead Bold, then why
pay more? Can help me save some bucks....)
YES - Support for legacy database is not important
NOT YET - Have your own GUI controls are irrelevant
YES - ABSOLUTE: Be safe to operate in N-tier, multi-tier environment
NO YET - Nice have a path to Kilyk...
I think that DePO is now the better, or it path to this, opf free. We
have build a expert to modelmaker where u can create your model, make
the mapper and the mm will generate a great slice of necessary code to
depo works. Many samples and a manual, but in portuguese yet.
Look at: www.liws.com.br/depo (blog and files to download)
Look at: www.oodesign.com.br/forum/index.php
(forum)
both in portuguese. We are work to put all in english to the comunity
can help us too.
Marcos Barreto
MicroProcess Sistemas Ltda
 

Re:Starting ove :( ... i need a OPF sugestion

Quote
ECO II will support ASP.NET
But ECO mean .NET. I don't wanna be tied to .NEt by now. I only use it
for ASP.NEt but requiere target native aplications
 

Re:Starting ove :( ... i need a OPF sugestion

Quote
>ECO II will support ASP.NET

But ECO mean .NET. I don't wanna be tied to .NEt by now. I only use it
for ASP.NEt but requiere target native aplications
Which is why I said this :-)
<quote>
But Bold and ECO do some things quite differently, so moving code form
one to the other might not be that straightforward.
</quote>
I was just responding to your remark about not being able to use ECO in
ASP.NET - it is one of the things they are proud of being able to do in
v2, along with using legacy databases :-)
--
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
_______________________________________________
Jim Cooper XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Falafel Software www.falafelsoft.co.uk
_______________________________________________