Board index » delphi » Re: I have seen some fat client Dot Net apps

Re: I have seen some fat client Dot Net apps


2007-09-03 11:45:22 PM
delphi68
Just so so one takes this criticism out of context, I should probably
point out that I think CodeGear is going a pretty good job (better all
the time) and delphi is still the best tool available for the
development that I do.
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
 
 

Re: I have seen some fat client Dot Net apps

"Bruce McGee" writes:>
Quote
As for things that CodeGear could do to increase market share, I have
some wish list items:
<snip>
All these things require resources or to put it another way, people in hell
want icewater.
Quote
- Actively market to disenfranchised Visual Basic developers. You're
late to the game, but there's still a market. Otherwise Microsoft
wouldn't patch VS6 to run under Vista (they didn't even do this for
VS2003!) and they wouldn't have built the compatibility layer that lets
VB6 developers use WinForms.
Don't you mean "disenchanted" users but never-the-less that ship has long
since sailed. Have you forgotten the passionate pleas of the Berkley Bros
trying to get an CodeGear to implement an "onramp" for VB6 developers to
encourage their switching to Delphi?
Quote
- Add a fully featured ODBC (Unicode enabled) driver to DBExpress.
otherwise, DBExpress is only as useful as the driver support, which
isn't as broad as it could be. If you want DBExpress adoption to
increase, why not make it a viable option for anyone doing database
development in Delphi.
That brings a chuckle after all the efforts to discredit ODBC by introducing
alternative Borland/CodeGear DB technology. ISTR that the BDE was release
in the same time frame as ODCB and was long touted by Borland as superior
and now it is gone. <oh well>
 

Re: I have seen some fat client Dot Net apps

"Bruce McGee" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
I've had a chance to come up for air. I will post my thoughts on Delphi
.Net to a new thread titled (imaginatively) "Delphi for .Net".

As for things that CodeGear could do to increase market share, I have
some wish list items:

- Bring back full support for Apache on Windows. IIS can not (shouldn't)
be the only option, and I want to take advantage of Portable Apache
(portableapps.com/). After all, Delphi for PHP uses Apache
directly for development.

At least do this much. But codegear needs to get out of the business of
just supporting 3rd Party tech, and into the habit of giving developers the
tools to develop their own Apache or IIS servers. Yes, people its possible.
Once upon a time Delphi was known for delivering the power of C++ with the
ease of VB. that is still the truth and it means we have the means to write
*real* tech. But Delphi has never been marketed or positioned that way...
What we need is a VCL for the Server-side of the tracks.
Quote
- Bring back something that lets us write native Linux applications.
Absolutely. FP is already there. Time to join forces in as many creative
ways as possible.
Quote
I've heard lots of excuses about market forces killing Kylix, but in my
opinion, Borland did more to shoot themselves (and me) in the foot
before "market forces" could and didn't do much to improve on the
situation right up until they pulled the plug. What better way to
follow up on the assertion that you aren't going to follow Microsoft's
every move, and I could seriously use an alternative to Windows,
especially on the server side. Activation is becoming less of an
inconvenience and more of a business risk. I don't need the IDE to run
in Linux. I just need deployment/debugging to be as easy as possible.
And make it as compatible with native Delphi as Delphi for .Net already
is.
Abso-tootly
Quote

- Schedule another major conference and treat it like the
marketing/launch event it deserves to be instead of something that has
to make money. I have the budget set aside and am just waiting for an
announcement.
Save your money and your time on something *more* productive. But more
importantly, Codegear save your's.
Quote
The live chats and virtual conferences are great, but
there's no substitute for a real face to face conference. Oh, and get
some Delphi branding going on. My Borland shirts don't have the impact
they once did.

I might could be persuaded to wear a golf-shirt or three.
Quote
- Start bragging publicly and loudly about things that only CodeGear
and Delphi can do, features in .Net that C# doesn't support but Delphi
does, single source native and managed code... You get the idea.

Yeah!
Quote
- Be proactive about getting Delphi back in to the schools. This isn't
as rhetorical as it sounds. In one of the community chats, Ben Smith
gave the impression that he didn't think this was very important. I
think that was incredibly short sighted and I hope it isn't CodeGear's
current thinking.

Phillipe Khan, heeelllllp!
Quote
- Release new versions of the Turbos. These could help with the
previous point.

Whatever. A marketing initiative, without a marketing follow-thru equals an
orphaned web page floating in {*word*104}-space.
Quote
- Actively market to disenfranchised Visual Basic developers. You're
late to the game, but there's still a market. Otherwise Microsoft
wouldn't patch VS6 to run under Vista (they didn't even do this for
VS2003!) and they wouldn't have built the compatibility layer that lets
VB6 developers use WinForms. Of course, someone at Microsoft may just
have a warped sense of humour and are adding insult to injury.

Too late.
Quote
- Do *not* abandon .Net support. 'nuff said.

Keep your .NET support at *exactly* where its at. ASP.NET serves some
useful purpose in the world for some developers who don't have a ready
alternative. The rest is Vanity publishing...
-d
 

Re: I have seen some fat client Dot Net apps

"Dennis Landi" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
some Delphi branding going on. My Borland shirts don't have the impact
Quote
>they once did.
>

I might could be persuaded to wear a golf-shirt or three.

Some of the CodeGear *red* against a black background.
Yeah!
-d
 

Re: I have seen some fat client Dot Net apps

Dennis Landi submitted this idea :
Quote
>- Be proactive about getting Delphi back in to the schools. This isn't
>as rhetorical as it sounds. In one of the community chats, Ben Smith
>gave the impression that he didn't think this was very important. I
>think that was incredibly short sighted and I hope it isn't CodeGear's
>current thinking.
>

Phillipe Khan, heeelllllp!

Well, Apple brought SteveJ back and look how they are doing.
Thanks,
Brad.
 

Re: I have seen some fat client Dot Net apps

Bruce McGee expressed precisely :
Quote
I've had a chance to come up for air. I will post my thoughts on Delphi
.Net to a new thread titled (imaginatively) "Delphi for .Net".
I wish you'd posted this to a top level thread too with
jsut a pointer here. Deserves more airtime.
Quote

As for things that CodeGear could do to increase market share, I have
some wish list items:

- Bring back full support for Apache on Windows. IIS can not (shouldn't)
be the only option, and I want to take advantage of Portable Apache
(portableapps.com/). After all, Delphi for PHP uses Apache
directly for development.

I have no idea how much work that would be.
Would it be something that could be done under
JEDI?
Quote
- Bring back something that lets us write native Linux applications.
I've heard lots of excuses about market forces killing Kylix, but in my
opinion, Borland did more to shoot themselves (and me) in the foot
before "market forces" could and didn't do much to improve on the
situation right up until they pulled the plug. What better way to
follow up on the assertion that you aren't going to follow Microsoft's
every move, and I could seriously use an alternative to Windows,
especially on the server side. Activation is becoming less of an
inconvenience and more of a business risk. I don't need the IDE to run
in Linux. I just need deployment/debugging to be as easy as possible.
And make it as compatible with native Delphi as Delphi for .Net already
is.
That sounds like a lot of work.
OTOH, CG is getting more into supporting OS.
Perhaps working together with FP is in the future.
It would be interesting to hear from the FP guys
what kind of colaboration they would like to see.
Quote

- Schedule another major conference and treat it like the
marketing/launch event it deserves to be instead of something that has
to make money. I have the budget set aside and am just waiting for an
announcement. The live chats and virtual conferences are great, but
there's no substitute for a real face to face conference. Oh, and get
some Delphi branding going on. My Borland shirts don't have the impact
they once did.

Me too.
If I had know they were not going to have a conference
last year I'd have gone to SD.
Quote
- Start bragging publicly and loudly about things that only CodeGear
and Delphi can do, features in .Net that C# doesn't support but Delphi
does, single source native and managed code... You get the idea.

- Be proactive about getting Delphi back in to the schools. This isn't
as rhetorical as it sounds. In one of the community chats, Ben Smith
gave the impression that he didn't think this was very important. I
think that was incredibly short sighted and I hope it isn't CodeGear's
current thinking.

- Release new versions of the Turbos. These could help with the
previous point.

- Actively market to disenfranchised Visual Basic developers. You're
late to the game, but there's still a market. Otherwise Microsoft
wouldn't patch VS6 to run under Vista (they didn't even do this for
VS2003!) and they wouldn't have built the compatibility layer that lets
VB6 developers use WinForms. Of course, someone at Microsoft may just
have a warped sense of humour and are adding insult to injury.

- Add a fully featured ODBC (Unicode enabled) driver to DBExpress.
otherwise, DBExpress is only as useful as the driver support, which
isn't as broad as it could be. If you want DBExpress adoption to
increase, why not make it a viable option for anyone doing database
development in Delphi.

Those ideas all sound not too intensive, just need
some attention.
Thanks,
Brad.
 

Re: I have seen some fat client Dot Net apps

Brad White writes:
Quote
I wish you'd posted this to a top level thread too with
jsut a pointer here. Deserves more airtime.
ok.
Reposted in a new thread named "CodeGear wish list".
--
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software