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Re: Informal Poll --- 100K to 1M Sale


2005-08-09 11:15:35 AM
delphi185
Thomas Miller writes:
Quote
He saying if someone is looking for a word processor, selling them
Delphi is pretty stupid. I'd have to agree. Just like trying to
market ALM to small business using Delphi isn't very smart either.
If only Delphi and the other tools were as disparate as your example...
 
 

Re: Informal Poll --- 100K to 1M Sale

Thomas Miller writes:
Quote
Whether it makes since or not, that was the decision.
Since they already chose Delphi beforehand, perhaps they ran out of
sensible choices?
--
Dave Nottage [TeamB]
 

Re: Informal Poll --- 100K to 1M Sale

Thomas Miller writes:
Quote

I know I do, but I am not going to try to implement a full out software
stack to do it.
You don't have to. Start with Together and StarTeam. Bring in some more
later.
Quote
Of course not. What I said is that had 50% of the number of VB
programmers. They were the leader with like 30+% of the market. It was
on pretty close parity with C++.
If only VB(Visual Basic) was Microsoft's only development tool... To be honest, I
don't recall when Delphi was 50% of VB(Visual Basic) programmers. Was this Delphi 1?
Quote
>>Everyone knew Delphi and wanted to tell everyone it was dying so they
>>won't hire you to program in it because they knew you could deliver
>>the product faster and more stable then they could in VB(Visual Basic) or
>>Powerbuilder.
>
I should did here this from a lot of VB(Visual Basic) and Powerbuilder programmers.
Umm, I used to be a big Powerbuilder programmer. Our shop was PB. Two
other people wanted Delphi. We did not try to make the sale to
management to use Delphi by saying it should die.
 

Re: Informal Poll --- 100K to 1M Sale

Nick Hodges [TeamB] writes:
Quote
Maybe I am being dense here, but the notion of dumping Delphi for a
lack of a 64-bit native compiler and then moving all development to
.Net seems utterly risible to me.
Even if they're not planning to develop for Win64, it seems like saying
"You're not giving me something I don't want, so I am going elsewhere!".
Check, please!
--
Dave Nottage [TeamB]
 

Re: Informal Poll --- 100K to 1M Sale

Dave Nottage [TeamB] writes:
Quote
Even if they're not planning to develop for Win64, it seems like
saying "You're not giving me something I don't want, so I am going
elsewhere!".
Exactly. I am confused that the silliness of this isn't obvious.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Informal Poll --- 100K to 1M Sale

Brian Moelk writes:
Quote
statements that say "always" or "never" are very likely "false".
I love it! that is a keeper, thanks <g>
--
Dave Nottage [TeamB]
 

Re: Informal Poll --- 100K to 1M Sale

In article <42f7f5f0$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
says...
Quote
Most of our Delphi customers who spend $100K+ don't have any employees
who participate in our newsgroups. Just one of those peculiarities.


There's nothing peculiar about it. The posters in this newsgroup are
very passionate about their trade, over 90% of the IT people I deal with
at large corporations are far from passionate about theirs, most think
of in as nothing but a job. They couldn't be bothered spending any of
their free time in a newsgroup such as this, which is what keep
companies like mine in business.
 

Re: Informal Poll --- 100K to 1M Sale

Nick Hodges [TeamB] in <42f7b153$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>inscribed:
Quote
Thomas Miller writes:

>You mean taking a safe bet vs a risky bet?

No, I mean there is no lesson to be learned from a company that does
all their development in C# because Delphi has no 64-bit compiler.

I would say that the lesson is that management decisions are not always rational.
 

Re: Informal Poll --- 100K to 1M Sale

Thomas Miller writes:
Quote
The question is how expensive (not in dollars but lost productivity)
is it to learn, set up , go through he growing pains of knowing
how to do stuff the way the tool wants you too. Most small companies
can't afford the down time.
I agree, if you take that hit all at one time. This is where the big
companies who can afford to employ people to look after nothing but
processes can win big - adoption rate is much faster.
OTOH, embrace ALM incrementally and the end result is a bigger result
for the small shops. You can not afford to employ people to look after
all the small details that ALM solutions automate for you.
It is not that you cannot do for yourself what ALM does for you, but
rather when ALM is doing it all for you, the higher levels of project
management become clear and simple, as you can finally see past all the
details, just as VCL makes it easier to think about UI design than when
we were coding directly against the WinAPI (or close to it, with OWL)
The results will not be visible overnight, so budget your time
accordingly - DON'T stop the world to adopt ALM. DO expect to see
differences 12 - 18 months down the line, and DO plan to adopt improved
practices incrementally to get there. The end result will be worth it.
AlisdairM(TeamB)
 

Re: Informal Poll --- 100K to 1M Sale

Billb writes:
Quote
I would say that the lesson is that management decisions are not
always rational.
I stand corrected -- there is that lesson. ;-)
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Informal Poll --- 100K to 1M Sale

Alisdair Meredith [TeamB] writes:
Quote
The results will not be visible overnight, so budget your time
accordingly - DON'T stop the world to adopt ALM. DO expect to see
differences 12 - 18 months down the line, and DO plan to adopt
improved practices incrementally to get there. The end result will
be worth it.
Yes, I really agree with this. For example, we spent almost six months
gradually adopting StarTeam last year -- folks without previous
knowledge of the tool should expect to spend longer -- and there are
still features we're not using. But it is already paying off for us.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] ?Vertex Systems Corp. ?Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
How to ask questions the smart way:
www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
 

Re: Informal Poll --- 100K to 1M Sale

Adam Roslon writes:
Quote
There's nothing peculiar about it. The posters in this newsgroup are
very passionate about their trade, over 90% of the IT people I deal with
at large corporations are far from passionate about theirs, most think
of in as nothing but a job. They couldn't be bothered spending any of
their free time in a newsgroup such as this, which is what keep
companies like mine in business.
You lost me with that last sentence, Adam. How does this newsgroup keep
you in business?
There are lots of people skilled in Delphi and passionate about it who
don't post regularly to this or any other newsgroup. I think it is a real
fallacy to say "We may be a minority, but we're the only ones who really
care."
Rick Carter
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Chair, Delphi/Paradox SIG, Cincinnati PC Users Group
--- posted by geoForum on delphi.newswhat.com
 

Re: Informal Poll --- 100K to 1M Sale

John Kaster (Borland) writes:
Quote
Thomas Miller writes:

>I am a Delphi programmer, not a large company. I don't care about ALM

IMO, the smaller the company, the more important ALM support becomes.
You have a much bigger chance of losing everything if something goes
wrong because there are fewer points of failure.
I think Thomas' postings about how he doesn't want/need Borland's ALM
solutions are a clear indication of the breakdown in marketing. If
Borland's existing customers don't understand why we should want it, and
we already have a relationship with you...
Frankly, I am scared off by two things - the cost and the setup. The
StarTeam server bundled in Delphi 8 was such a pain in my tuckus to set up
that I can not imagine how much harder it would be to add in CalibreRM, and
I'm afraid to try to upgrade to the StarTeam in Delphi 2005. I might buy
a *slightly* higher priced Delphi Studio package that bundled the rest of
the ALM solution, if it had a unified setup and if I could upgrade my S/A
account.
-Brion
 

Re: Informal Poll --- 100K to 1M Sale

Nick Hodges [TeamB] writes:
Quote
Did I say that? No, I didn't. Anyway, to answer your question -- no,
it would be silly to shut down Delphi because JBuilder customers aren't
interested in it. Why you'd ask that, I haven't a clue.
Because the theme has been if party X is not interested in product Y,
then product Y should not be a part of product X's company's portfolio.
The company should attempt to show party X how product Y can serve their
needs.
 

Re: Informal Poll --- 100K to 1M Sale

Rick Carter writes:
Quote
Adam Roslon writes:
>There's nothing peculiar about it. The posters in this newsgroup are
>very passionate about their trade, over 90% of the IT people I deal with
>at large corporations are far from passionate about theirs, most think
>of in as nothing but a job. They couldn't be bothered spending any of
>their free time in a newsgroup such as this, which is what keep
>companies like mine in business.

You lost me with that last sentence, Adam. How does this newsgroup keep
you in business?
It's the lackadaisical nature of the corporate IT drones that keeps Adam's
company in business, not spending time on this newsgroup. I must admit I
share the feeling - while there are always exceptions, the average IT
person I know in big shops (or worse, govt) are there for the paycheck.
Quote
There are lots of people skilled in Delphi and passionate about it who
don't post regularly to this or any other newsgroup. I think it is a real
fallacy to say "We may be a minority, but we're the only ones who really
care."
Couldn't agree more. We may be vocal, but how many of us have called a
Borland Sales rep to express our views? There are plenty of people out
there who care a whole lot who have no qualified experience with Borland
tools at all.
-Brion