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Re: Note to Borland...


2005-12-13 04:18:35 AM
delphi262
Brion L. Webster writes:
Quote
It's a somewhat specific situation - and not Borland's fault.
Thanks for the explanation ... I haven't been using VMs for it, and
usually copy the files locally for install performance reasons as part
of a batch file, but I do occasionally install using UNC.
--
John Kaster blogs.borland.com/johnk
Features and bugs: qc.borland.com
Get source: cc.borland.com
If it is not here, it is not happening: ec.borland.com
 
 

Re: Note to Borland...

Brion L. Webster writes:
Quote
It may be worked around in VMWare 5, or MSI Installer 3.1, but
mapping a drive letter within the VMWare virtual machine to the host
shared folder resolved it.

It's a somewhat specific situation - and not Borland's fault.
I think it might be alimitation of MSI v2 as Ive seen it on earlier XP
boxes but with MSI 3 (not that I measured it) I havent..
--
Liz the Brit
Delphi things I have released: www.xcalibur.co.uk/DelphiThings
 

Re: Note to Borland...

John Kaster (Borland) writes:
...
Quote
MS charges extra (a couple hundred US$, IIRC) for MSDN on CD.
Probably for the truck to deliver just one update :-) Thy seem to press
anything the have on DVD, and then some. What you get for 320 Euro is
unbelieveable. _Please_ don't get me wrong! I know that MS does not need to
make money with ther dev tools, it is their strategy to sell OS and
BackOffice and server licenses.
Ralf
 

Re: Note to Borland...

Microsoft is fine with saying, "here is our stuff - use it our way or else."
Borland doesn't have that luxury. They are often in an uphill battle against
Microsoft tools anyway, so whatever they can do to please the bulk of the
people is the thing they are going to do.
I'd like a DVD, but from the number of "will BDS 2006 run on my old laptop
or do I need to upgrade" threads, it seems a bunch of people still don't
have DVD drives.
Bottom line is that I can make a DVD from my CDs, but I can not make CDs from
a DVD.
Ryan
Quote
Frankly said, I simply don't know why Borland does not include a DVD.
MSDN is DVD only, and I haven't heard any complaints. I am sure that
Borland has reason to deliver CDs only, and I am not that interested
in the "why" question. I jsut want them to know that I'd really
like to get a DVD, and that I see good reasons to do that. that is all.
 

Re: Note to Borland...

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:34:00 +0100, "Ralf Mimoun" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>
writes:
Quote
Oh, come on. That is not rocket science, and is no problem to write one
installer that can handle both situations. It is common practice in the
industry since years.
I didn't claim it was rocket science. My point is that it costs money,
and to me it appears it costs enough money that Borland decided
against it. To me that says it is not a trivial amount of money we're
talking about here.
- Asbjørn
 

Re: Note to Borland...

Lord Crc writes:
Quote
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:34:00 +0100, "Ralf Mimoun" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>
writes:

>Oh, come on. That is not rocket science, and is no problem to write
>one installer that can handle both situations. It is common practice
>in the industry since years.

I didn't claim it was rocket science. My point is that it costs money,
and to me it appears it costs enough money that Borland decided
against it. To me that says it is not a trivial amount of money we're
talking about here.
Money, or time (which is equivalent) or something else. The additional cost
to produce the DVDs will be _much_ higher than the cost to test the
installation procedure. IIRC, the preview version was on DVD, so most
testing should be done before.
Frankly said, I simply don't know why Borland does not include a DVD. MSDN
is DVD only, and I haven't heard any complaints. I am sure that Borland has
reason to deliver CDs only, and I am not that interested in the "why"
question. I jsut want them to know that I'd really like to get a DVD,
and that I see good reasons to do that. that is all.
Ralf
 

Re: Note to Borland...

Lord Crc writes:
Quote
My point is that it costs money,
and to me it appears it costs enough money that Borland decided
against it.
This kind of reasoning can be applied to any customer request, and thus
render any of them invalid!
Quote
To me that says it is not a trivial amount of money we're
talking about here.
We are not paying a "trivial amount of money" for the stuff either, at
least not here in Norway!
--
Ingvar Nilsen
www.ingvarius.com
 

Re: Note to Borland...

Ralf Mimoun writes:
Quote

Frankly said, I simply don't know why Borland does not include a DVD. MSDN
is DVD only, and I haven't heard any complaints. I am sure that Borland has
reason to deliver CDs only, and I am not that interested in the "why"
question. I jsut want them to know that I'd really like to get a DVD,
and that I see good reasons to do that. that is all.
Fair enough; I am sure Borland has noted this. Frankly you will probably
spend more time arguing the point in NG than the time it would actually
feed the machine DVDs.
 

Re: Note to Borland...

Ryan McGinty writes:
Quote
Microsoft is fine with saying, "here is our stuff - use it our way or
else."
Ahem, a company wide MSDN subscription is not _that_ cheap...
Quote
Borland doesn't have that luxury. They are often in an uphill
battle against Microsoft tools anyway, so whatever they can do to
please the bulk of the people is the thing they are going to do.
No problem with that.
Quote
I'd like a DVD, but from the number of "will BDS 2006 run on my old
laptop or do I need to upgrade" threads, it seems a bunch of people
still don't have DVD drives.
That's why I would lke to see a DVD _additional_ to the CDs. But I will stop here.
We are talking about a relatively small problem. Maybe we can get D2007
online, on DVD and on CD. Or on a USB memory stick (I like that way to
distribute software). Who knows?
Ralf
 

Re: Note to Borland...

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:52:47 +0100, Ingvar Nilsen
<XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
We are not paying a "trivial amount of money" for the stuff either, at
least not here in Norway!
Yet you're happy with paying more for a package with a DVD which
contains nothing beyond what you will already get?
- Asbjørn
 

Re: Note to Borland...

I'm afraid I am missing your point. I was saying that Microsoft doesn't
care if they tick off people that only own CD-ROMs because they are Microsoft.
They are constantly doing things that tick people off (like dumping VB(Visual Basic) developers,
making XP not install on < 700 mhz PCs, etc), but they are Microsoft - you
go with it or you don't, but they don't lose sleep if you don't.
Ryan
Quote
>Microsoft is fine with saying, "here is our stuff - use it our way or
>else."
>
Ahem, a company wide MSDN subscription is not _that_ cheap...
 

Re: Note to Borland...

John Kaster (Borland) writes:
Quote
MS charges extra (a couple hundred US$, IIRC) for MSDN on CD.
Actually, I don't believe it is an option anymore. My MSDN Universal
has always been on CD. But when they switched me to MSDN Premium
Visual Studio 2005 Team System for Developers, I started getting DVDs
for everything.
For many products, I get two DVDs. One of the DVDs has the ISO images
for the CDs. ;) Of course, /someone/ still have to have a DVD reader
to extract/burn the ISOs.
--
Jon Robertson
Borland Certified Advanced Delphi 7 Developer
MedEvolve, Inc
www.medevolve.com
 

Re: Note to Borland...

John Jacobson writes:
Quote
I seem to recall that you can not usually install Borland products from
a network drive, but I would love to hear that I am wrong about this.
I've installed D5, D6, D7, D8, D2005, and D2006, all over a network
drive. I build VMs often enough, I have got each of these versions on my
file server for easy installation.
The irritating thing for me is that if I burn the install to a DVD, now
the installer realizes that I am using removable media and prompts me to
insert CD #2, even though everything is on the DVD!
I wish the installer used a different mechanism to determine if a disc
change was necessary. Way back when I wrote my first installer, I just
checked for files named disc.01, disc.02, etc in the root directory of
the installer. If the file wasn't there, then I prompted for a disc
changed. Worked great when going from 5.25s to 3.5s to CDs. It should
still work great for DVDs! ;)
--
Jon Robertson
Borland Certified Advanced Delphi 7 Developer
MedEvolve, Inc
www.medevolve.com
 

Re: Note to Borland...

Brion L. Webster writes:
Quote
Mapping drive letters solves all sorts of things.
I've never mapped a drive letter to install a Borland product.
Microsoft SQL Server 2000, on the other hand, requires it since that
installer still uses *batch* files and batch files require a drive
letter.
Man, talk about Microsoft needing to embrace their own technology...
--
Jon Robertson
Borland Certified Advanced Delphi 7 Developer
MedEvolve, Inc
www.medevolve.com
 

Re: Note to Borland...

Jon Robertson writes:
Quote
Actually, I don't believe it is an option anymore.
Thanks ... I wouldn't know since I get the DVDs.
--
John Kaster blogs.borland.com/johnk
Features and bugs: qc.borland.com
Get source: cc.borland.com
If it is not here, it is not happening: ec.borland.com