Board index » delphi » Re: Turbo Explorer loopholes closed
Dave Jewell
Delphi Developer |
Dave Jewell
Delphi Developer |
Re: Turbo Explorer loopholes closed2006-09-25 09:33:10 PM delphi226 "Clinton R. Johnson" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes QuoteSomeone's been reading the VCL source code ;-) |
Dave Jewell
Delphi Developer |
2006-09-25 09:45:28 PM
Re: Turbo Explorer loopholes closed
"Chris Burrows" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
QuoteAre you talking about true newbies or someone considering moving up from the existence of third-party components (indeed, you say this yourself). Therefore, if Turbo Delphi Explorer didn't have component support for the specific things that our hypothetical newbie wanted to do, he/she might reasonably conclude that Delphi wasn't up to the job. OTOH, if Borland released a version of Delphi which wasn't limited in this way, *AND* if the documentation made it clear that there is a huge component marketplace out there (with links to DevExpress, Raize, Plasmatech, etc), then our newbie might have a much more rewarding, open-ended experience. As a concrete example, look at the Plasmatech Shell Control Pack. If our newbie wanted to create some great looking shell-compatible interface for his application (remember: he might be a newcomer to Delphi, but he isn't necessarily a programming newcomer), then without Plasmatech, he would have a lot of work on his hands... Dave |
Matt Emson
Delphi Developer |
2006-09-25 10:40:54 PM
Re: Turbo Explorer loopholes closedQuoteErrr...actually, there are plenty of folks who still routinely use D5 for main development environment to then upgrade? Delphi 5 is getting creaky, but as I just opened the about box to remind me that I have been using it since '1999' it is obviously the case that people are **still** using it - all of the time ;-) |
Clinton R. Johnson
Delphi Developer |
2006-09-25 11:15:13 PM
Re: Turbo Explorer loopholes closed
Chris Burrows writes:
QuoteI don't understand all the fuss about 3rd party components with QuoteAre you talking about true newbies or someone considering moving up QuoteA true newbie would be simply overwhelmed by what is in Turbo Delphi exact effect it is supposed to produce. What incentive is there to buy something you don't use? More likely people will look at it (if they look at all, this is pascal after all) and will just turn away after scratching that surface and finding no real depth. Heck, examples from PCMag with source aren't even useful to newbies, because most of them use custom components. That provides a NEGATIVE experience, further negating the point of limiting components. Suggestions such as a limited number of 3rd party components or certain approved packages such as JVCL has significantly more value in this instance. People see this as yet another in a long line of borland class decissions in a group that is supposed to move away from that type of self defeating logic, which is why some people make a big deal about it. |
Clinton R. Johnson
Delphi Developer |
2006-09-25 11:57:13 PM
Re: Turbo Explorer loopholes closed
Matt Emson writes:
QuoteDave, with all due respect - giving Delphi 5 away would make no those who are familiar with the product may use it as a cheap upgrade, but that is not who the product is targeted at. And it has also become increasing clear that the two camps can not quite seem to meet anywhere on opinion, so continuing that thread is probably a waste of time. What is equally clear is that, as normal, our opinions don't matter worth squat. A decission has been made, and it will be stood behind for good or ill as if it was word from above. Of course, eventually, the dollars spent will decide this issue one way or the other. If it for ill, we hope that is sooner than too late. |
Fred Wilson
Delphi Developer |
2006-09-26 12:09:30 AM
Re: Turbo Explorer loopholes closed
Clinton R. Johnson writes:
QuoteWhat is equally clear is that, as normal, our opinions don't matter |
Dave Jewell
Delphi Developer |
2006-09-26 01:17:36 AM
Re: Turbo Explorer loopholes closed
"Clinton R. Johnson" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
QuoteThe difference in opinion here lies in the fact that many feel that the QuoteWhat is equally clear is that, as normal, our opinions don't matter Dave |
Clinton R. Johnson
Delphi Developer |
2006-09-26 01:35:48 AM
Re: Turbo Explorer loopholes closed
Fred Wilson writes:
QuoteStop making sense, you are teeing off the narrow minded self absorbed |
Uffe Kousgaard
Delphi Developer |
2006-09-26 04:28:00 AM
Re: Turbo Explorer loopholes closed
"Dave Jewell" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
QuoteWhich isn't, ipso facto, a bad thing since it *increases* the incentive to very well stick to Delphi 5, since it is still a very capable product (and one of the more stable releases). QuoteErrr...actually, there are plenty of folks who still routinely use D5 for I also use D5 for a cgiexpert (no source code) based web-application, so I'm stuck there. But it works fine. QuoteSome folks might argue that having to install .NET runtime when they have Quote>I think no matter what Borland comes up with, there will be someone these groups to have done that. Jolyons suggestion is IMHO the first good idea I have seen - Borland should consider it for Turbo 2007 Explorer. Regards Uffe |
Chris Pattinson (Borland/DTG)
Delphi Developer |
2006-09-26 05:03:37 AM
Re: Turbo Explorer loopholes closed
Clinton R. Johnson writes:
QuoteMatt Emson writes: schools to use to teach one language. C++ is still widely in use, and Delphi and Delphi.NET are still excellent and modern OOP languages. More exposure can only be a win/win for everyone. QuoteAnd it has also become increasing clear that the two camps can not quite QuoteWhat is equally clear is that, as normal, our opinions don't matter QuoteOf course, eventually, the dollars spent will decide this issue one 'Best Delphi', and it is clear we have a lot of leading edge features, but it is time to focus on stability, performance and resource management again. I also suspect many folks using BDS for Delphi work load all of BDS, and not just the single personality Delphi. Of course we need to spend some attention on Doc and the whole help experience. And the basics - .NET 2.0 and 64 bit support. So with those in mind, yes - I hope we'll be able to demonstrate we do listen, and your opinions do matter. I personally thought the hotfixes were a good start, just the tip of the iceberg, of course. -- Chris Pattinson QA Manager, DTG, Developer Studio |
Chris Pattinson (Borland/DTG)
Delphi Developer |
2006-09-26 05:14:06 AM
Re: Turbo Explorer loopholes closed
Chris Pattinson (Borland/DTG) writes:
QuoteNo really a waste of time, though it is true there are (at least) two Chris Pattinson QA Manager, DTG, Developer Studio |
Uffe Kousgaard
Delphi Developer |
2006-09-26 05:57:42 AM
Re: Turbo Explorer loopholes closed
"Chris Pattinson (Borland/DTG)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
all the time. But in BDS help it has gone madness with c++, c#, delphi32, delphi.net and even J#, Jscript and VB.NET references. Regards Uffe |
Clinton R. Johnson
Delphi Developer |
2006-09-26 06:57:49 AM
Re: Turbo Explorer loopholes closed
Chris Pattinson (Borland/DTG) writes:
QuoteTurbo's have a lot of 'reasons for being', but the one I personally time again. In fact, you just succesfully argued the point yourself. QuoteNo really a waste of time, though it is true there are (at least) two DTG? Sounds like the same needs to me. QuoteCustomer opinions, current and potential, mean a lot. issues for paying customers) do NOT encourage old or new customers. QuoteMoney talks. One thing we're looking at is the balance of features vs ya? When we get unstable features that suck, we know which way the balance went. As for time to focus again? Was it ever really time to not focus on them? There are a lot of customers who have paid and paid while this was sadly the case, and those of us that have said enough is enough have just been insulted, maligned and ignored. Again, the track record speaks for itself. Speak out against Delphi? Herasy! True, some people have definitely improved (and I nominate Allen Bauer as one of the best improvements), but there are others that still fall into patterns of old (same track record says feed back on this point is more likely to attack the messenger than the message) QuoteI also suspect many folks using BDS for Delphi work load all of BDS, the license manager seems to suggest is possible.. QuoteOf course we need to spend some attention on Doc and the whole help QuoteAnd the basics - .NET 2.0 and 64 bit support. suggesting that keeping up with MS is too tiring, because that is just the beginning of become the best again, if you can not break even, you'll never pull ahead. QuoteSo with those in mind, yes - I hope we'll be able to demonstrate we do think. Heck, a few for 2005 would do the same. I am not asking for code templates, but performance and stability would be a nice touch. Hot fix #5 jumps immediately to mind... |