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Re: Embarcadero's Director of Product's Blog


2008-05-08 11:35:40 AM
delphi54
Jolyon Smith writes:
Quote
>Just remember who sold them at that value.

Not entirely clear what you are getting at there. It takes two to
agree a deal.
Sure, but if the seller has apparently undersold, whose fault is that?
Quote
And when selling something that is (seemingly)
difficult to sell (for whatever reason) the buyer is usually the one
in the driving seat.
What indications were there that it was difficult to sell, at the point
of being sold? that is bearing in mind that failure to find an investor
before the split is ancient history.
Quote
But the other way around looks completely bonkers, from a Delphi
perspective.
Why is it bonkers, and which perspective, exactly? The direction Delphi
is/should be heading in? It would be bonkers only if Embarcadero
changed that direction significantly, and it has already been said that
there are no such plans to do so.
--
Dave Nottage [TeamB]
 
 

Re: Embarcadero's Director of Product's Blog

"Jolyon Smith" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
In article <48223925$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
says...

>To developers, the primary product of CodeGear has been Delphi. To some
>of us red-haired stepchildren, that has included C++ Builder.

And either of those products is easily worth $30m alone (or at least
should have been), so the fact that this is what has been paid for
everything in the CodeGear stable says something about the value placed
on those two things when it is all the OTHER stuff that gets attention
lavished on it when discussing the rational behind the acquisition.


>For the company that bought CodeGear to exclaim to the heavens all of
>the wonderful 'technologies' that they'll be able to use, and with what
>languages they'll do it in, without even TOUCHING on the core product
>seems a bit short-sighted.

More than short-sighted. Sadly revealing, I think.

(can we really envisage the Embarcadero board really wringing their
hands wishing they had something that might compete with Visual Studio?)
I think you two are reading WAY too much into this. The absence of
references to something never disproves it is existence. Nobody puts
everything into a blog. Blogs would all be way too long to read if people
did that.
 

Re: Embarcadero's Director of Product's Blog

"Jolyon Smith" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
In article <48221f5c$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
says...

>Think end

Yep, unfortunately that is what we're thinking.

:(
Who's "we", kemosabe?
I happen to think this could be very good for Delphi's long-term existence.
For a change.
 

Re: Embarcadero's Director of Product's Blog

Quote
Whoa. Lots of words there. CONTACT ME any time through Embarcadero my
friends to get deeper on all this. We are counting on you!
Greg Keller
Greg, I don't think anyone will be able to read this - to post to
CodeGear newsgroups you need to connect to their NNTP server (or use
their web interface). If you (like me) are using Google Groups, then
your message will be visible only to Google Groups users (and most
b.p.d.n-t readers are not using Google Groups for that reason).
 

Re: Embarcadero's Director of Product's Blog

Jolyon Smith writes:
Quote
In article <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>,
XXXX@XXXXX.COM says...
>Jolyon Smith writes:
>
>>GrandMasterB writes:
>>>Think end to end development and code optimization.
>
>which was quoted as....
>
>>>Think end
>>
>>Yep, unfortunately that is what we're thinking.
>
>Who's "we" and are all of you using this misquoting style?

The "misquoting" was deliberate and ironic, not intentionally to
misrepresent, and I think that would have been immediately apparent
to anyone following the thread.
You think wrong ;)
--
Pieter
 

Re: Embarcadero's Director of Product's Blog

'1' + '1' = '11'
;-)
"Gil" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
1+1 = 11

;-)

 

Re: Embarcadero's Director of Product's Blog

The world has ended, we agree on something for the first time in 5 years.
This is excellent for Delphi! Instead of the long slow death under the
current administration (ie - Mostly Borland), there is the possibility
that we could actually get the new guys to do somethings right and in a
timely manner.
Unicode, 64bit, cross compile with FP, namespaces, to mention a few
would be excellent.
Still hoping they will open source the VCL ala Qt model.
John Jacobson writes:
Quote
"Jolyon Smith" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
news:XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
>In article <48221f5c$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
>says...
>
>>Think end
>Yep, unfortunately that is what we're thinking.
>
>:(

Who's "we", kemosabe?

I happen to think this could be very good for Delphi's long-term existence.

For a change.


--
Thomas Miller
Chrome Portal Project Manager
CPCUG Programmers SIG Chairperson (formally Delphi)
Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer
programmers.cpcug.org/
sourceforge.net/projects/chromeportal/
sourceforge.net/projects/uopl/
sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus
 

Re: Embarcadero's Director of Product's Blog

John,
| Blogs would all be way too long to read if people did that.
They're all pretty much way too long to read anyway. ;-)
--
Q
05/08/2008 10:33:10
XanaNews Version 1.17.5.7 [Q's Salutation mod]
 

Re: Embarcadero's Director of Product's Blog

"Nick Hodges (CodeGear)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Yannis writes:

>This must mean that ....

Not sure what you mean, but I will be clearer: Embarcadero is very
interested in Delphi.
It sounds to me like they are very interested in all of CodeGear's tools.
This is one of the best things to happen to Delphi in ages. Everything had
been so doom and gloom for so long that I feel like I am about to wake up
and find out that this was just a dream.
The big question is how long will it take for non-tech to get a message from
some luminary to the effect that Embarcadero still has products written with
non-CodeGear tools and languages and they must therefore not really believe
in CodeGear?
 

Re: Embarcadero's Director of Product's Blog

Captain Jake writes:
Quote
This is one of the best things to happen to Delphi in ages.
Coming from a curmudgeon like you, this means a lot. ;-)
Quote
The big question is how long will it take for non-tech to get a
message from some luminary to the effect that Embarcadero still has
products written with non-CodeGear tools and languages and they must
therefore not really believe in CodeGear?
I'm stunned it hasn't happened yet. ;-)
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: Embarcadero's Director of Product's Blog

Captain Jake writes:
Quote

"Nick Hodges (CodeGear)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
news:48235533$XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
>Yannis writes:
>
>>This must mean that ....
>
>Not sure what you mean, but I will be clearer: Embarcadero is very
>interested in Delphi.

It sounds to me like they are very interested in all of CodeGear's
tools. This is one of the best things to happen to Delphi in ages.
Everything had been so doom and gloom for so long that I feel like I
am about to wake up and find out that this was just a dream.

The big question is how long will it take for non-tech to get a
message from some luminary to the effect that Embarcadero still has
products written with non-CodeGear tools and languages and they must
therefore not really believe in CodeGear?
It would be foolish to take an existing product codebase and port it to
another toolset for that purpose alone. New, greenfield, products sure,
but long established products and teams, no. As much as I would love for
that to happen, I also have to work for this same company and would be
a more than a little irritated in such a move. The time and money spent
on such an exercise would be best spent on actually adding true value
for the customers.
*If* and only *if* that value were only obtainable through the porting
of the code to a CodeGear too, then maybe, just maybe those two agendas
can line up. Regardless, I would rather we spend our time making the best
overall suite of products that integrate well with each other where
appropriate.
That being said, in the case of Embt's Eclipse based products, this
*may* be a simple matter of installing the latest JBuilder tool-chain
and opening up the projects. That is not my call, but I can certainly
recommend that it be seriously investigated.
--
Allen Bauer
CodeGear
Chief Scientist
blogs.borland.com/abauer
 

Re: Embarcadero's Director of Product's Blog

"Nick Hodges (CodeGear)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Captain Jake writes:

>This is one of the best things to happen to Delphi in ages.

Coming from a curmudgeon like you, this means a lot. ;-)
Well, I like to think of myself as a realist.
When CodeGear was permanently severed from the hundreds of millions of
dollars in cash that Borland had stored up at the time, one of my major
arguments for the use of Delphi was decimated. I had previously figured that
all that cash meant that Borland could lose tons of money before it would be
in danger, so Delphi was safe for the long haul. But things fell apart so
quickly for Borland, that the collateral damage to Delphi was horrific. All
the Delphi programmers I knew either were leaving Delphi or had plans to
leave Delphi and it became nearly impossible to find Delphi programmers and
nearly as difficult to find Delphi jobs. In addition, Delphi never fully
recovered from the damage done to it is quality by a string of abysmal
releases starting with D8. By the time Delphi 2007 came out, the reputation as a
buggy product had stuck. During these dark days, I was alarmed at the
Panglossian illusions the true believers were willingly entertaining--that
all was well and that the "alarmists" should just go somewhere else and be
quiet.
Indeed, this all could have turned out badly, as illustrated by the
disparity between initial estimates of CodeGear's worth and the actual price
at which it was sold two years later. If Borland had held out much longer,
perhaps their own financial disaster would have destroyed the possiblity of
any sale at all, except to creditors. I also consider the low price to be
evidence that I was not far from the reality of the situation in my
assessment. I am not kidding when I say that it looks like the cavalry rode
in just in the nick of time.
I harbor no illusions that everything is going to be peaches and cream
henceforth, they are not that way anywhere. But with Delphi no longer
subject to the vagueries of the stock market and the short-term outlook that
engenders, I suspect things will get better. Nobody can now say that Delphi
is the red-headed step child that nobody wants, nor can they point to
Borland's sinking ship and say that Delphi is not in reliable hands. That is
uneqivocally a good thing in my eyes.
 

Re: Embarcadero's Director of Product's Blog

In article <4822750c$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>,
XXXX@XXXXX.COM says...
Quote
Jolyon Smith writes:

>>Just remember who sold them at that value.
>
>Not entirely clear what you are getting at there. It takes two to
>agree a deal.

Sure, but if the seller has apparently undersold, whose fault is that?
Well I wasn't looking to apportion "fault" to anyone, just interpreting
a few things from a key property of the deal - i.e. the price.
Quote
>And when selling something that is (seemingly)
>difficult to sell (for whatever reason) the buyer is usually the one
>in the driving seat.

What indications were there that it was difficult to sell, at the point
of being sold? that is bearing in mind that failure to find an investor
before the split is ancient history.
So the fact that it took two years (or more?) to sell isn't any
indication that it was difficult to sell?
2 years is not ancient history, especially when there was no break in
the timeline. CodeGear has been "for sale" since day one, and was for
sale as the DTG before that.
Quote
Why is it bonkers, and which perspective, exactly? The direction Delphi
is/should be heading in?
Direction? What direction? The one laid out in the ET Product Managers
blog on this acquisition? Where-in he offers the view that database
application development is something new!?!
That is arguably a valid position for the likes of Java/PHP/Ruby et al
where databases are - or could be said to be - becoming more important
in the web space, but Delphi has ALWAYS been about database development.
Does that make a database tools company a good fit? Or rather, a good
HOME for Delphi?
I don't see that it does. As a Delphi developer I might see a need to
buy a few ET products to use alongside Delphi (well, if it weren't for
the fact that I have used ER/Studio before and, well, let's just say it
didn't last long and I don't anymore), but the fact that those products
are not already tightly integrated and/or offering integrated solutions
for Delphi makes them just one of any number of possible alternatives I
might consider.
If CG had acquired ET and put Delphi specific versions in the box that
might have made sense, but they could have done that simply by
partnering - an acquisition (either way) wouldn't have been necessary.
But then CG also have a bunch of more specifically database oriented
technologies themselves, oh, and a Java product line.
All of which DO make perfect sense and could be seen as having a home at
a database tools company.
Quote
It would be bonkers only if Embarcadero
changed that direction significantly, and it has already been said that
there are no such plans to do so.
A cynic might observe that bringing something to a dead halt isn't a
change in direction.
;)
 

Re: Embarcadero's Director of Product's Blog

In article <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>,
XXXX@XXXXX.COM says...
Quote
Jolyon Smith writes:

>In article <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>,
>XXXX@XXXXX.COM says...
>>Jolyon Smith writes:
>>
>>>GrandMasterB writes:
>>>>Think end to end development and code optimization.
>>
>>which was quoted as....
>>
>>>>Think end
>>>
>>>Yep, unfortunately that is what we're thinking.
>>
>>Who's "we" and are all of you using this misquoting style?
>
>The "misquoting" was deliberate and ironic, not intentionally to
>misrepresent, and I think that would have been immediately apparent
>to anyone following the thread.

You think wrong ;)
Well, apologies then.
 

Re: Embarcadero's Director of Product's Blog

Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
Yannis writes:

>This must mean that ....

Not sure what you mean, but I will be clearer: Embarcadero is very
interested in Delphi.

all I can say is Delphi better not be killed off.
Do you guys have any type of agreement that if they do kill it off that
it could be released as Open Source?
The best thing that could happen though is a cross platform/cross
compile version of Delphi for the Mac and Linux.
It does seem they are pretty heavily invested in Java though....
Later,
Tony