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Re: G K Chesterton


2008-07-23 06:37:35 AM
delphi154
John Herbster writes:
Quote
Does anyone else see any parallels between Chesterton's
observations and what is happening in the computer
programming world.
Just don't mention the word "intelligent", and you can do today what G K
Chesterton couldn't in his time; you can study, and to some extent
understand the most complex and sophisticated information systems in the
universe, that is, DNA and the biological gene transcription and
replication mechanisms etc.
In biological information systems we have a hint about how software
really really should be built. All aspects. Nothing man-made is better
designed in terms of functionality and performance than the biochemical
information systems we are MADE of.
And yes, we /are/ designed. Everything we know about software design
shouts - purposely designed!
<ducking>
As for the concepts of generalization and specialization, one person
became a Christian when realizing that the concept of trinity, in it's
(deduced) generalization and specialization, comprises the very core
concept of epistemology (it's definition actually).
Admittedly Chesterton was a very sharp observer, although I am ignorant
of if he reached all the way to the same conclusion as just mentioned.
In IP programming the idea is that (expressed) Intent is what should
empower people to create the tools needed to shape the world. It's
essentially the idea we find in a very famous Book, which also G K
Chesterton read, in which it is said that "He commandeth, and it stood
there". That is, Intent, expressed with words. Pascal? Hm, hard to tell.
Strong typed words? Most probably. Delphi? it is a very pagan name...
Chesterton might have had concerns, at least he would have said
something mildly indulgent about its pagan roots. =)
And no, I am not a Catholic.
Regards,
// Rolf Lampa
 
 

Re: G K Chesterton

"Rolf Lampa [RIL]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
John Herbster writes:
In biological information systems we have a hint about how software really
really should be built. All aspects. Nothing man-made is better designed
in terms of functionality and performance than the biochemical information
systems we are MADE of.
...apart from the iPhone of course. ;-)
CB
 

Re: G K Chesterton

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:52:55 -0500, John Herbster writes:
Please move this thread to off-topic.
--
Marc Rohloff [TeamB]
marc -at- marc rohloff -dot- com
 

Re: G K Chesterton

Charles B skrev:
Quote
"Rolf Lampa [RIL]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
news:4886612d$XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
>John Herbster writes:

>In biological information systems we have a hint about how software really
>really should be built. All aspects. Nothing man-made is better designed
>in terms of functionality and performance than the biochemical information
>systems we are MADE of.

...apart from the iPhone of course. ;-)
Hmm. The the "biochemical information systems we are MADE of" comes
bundled with "wireless asynchronous communication over wast distances"
included. iPhone wasn't first, IIRC.
Although a variety of communication technologies may seem impressing,
like Skype (made with Delphi btw), what's really fascinating is the
syntax and semantics being replicated, transfered and, most important,
interpreted in the other end.
Pondering on which came first, the interpreter or the designer of the
message (sender) in biological information systems. =)
== What came first - the code or the compiler ==
BTW, in biological information systems there are special "molecular
machines" for interpreting genetic code (small compilers s to say).
These machines are a prerequisite for the genetic information to be
expressed, or "implemented" by the cells.
But now for the tricky part; the molecular interpretation machines are
themselves defined in the genetic codes (DNA) which they are to
interpret. So, in order to produce (implement) actual "interpretation
machines" from the genetic information, there must be interpretation
machines present.
But, in order to be able to exist, the molecular interpretation machines
must exist... um.
This "anachronistic-molecular-interpretation-machine-trick" is, by some,
considered being somewhat trickier than making a one-pass Pascal
compiler. :)
Regards,
// Rolf Lampa
 

Re: G K Chesterton

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:05:08 +0200, Rolf Lampa [RIL] writes:
Quote
What are you afraid of?
Your first post turned this into a religious discussion, and here
those only go one way.
--
Marc Rohloff [TeamB]
marc -at- marc rohloff -dot- com
 

Re: G K Chesterton

Rolf Lampa [RIL] writes:
Quote
Nonsens. Instead you seem to conflate conceptual analysis, theory
about knowledge, design paradigms and what constitutes meaningful
information systems with "religion".
You writes:
Quote
Most probably. Delphi? it is a very pagan name... Chesterton might
have had concerns, at least he would have said something mildly
indulgent about its pagan roots. =)

And no, I am not a Catholic.
Smiley noted, but IMHO it is still a good idea to discuss religion
elsewhere.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] ?Vertex Systems Corp. ?Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
Useful articles about InterBase development:
blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz/category/21.aspx
 

Re: G K Chesterton

Craig Stuntz [TeamB] skrev:
Quote
Rolf Lampa [RIL] writes:

>Nonsens. Instead you seem to conflate conceptual analysis, theory
>about knowledge, design paradigms and what constitutes meaningful
>information systems with "religion"

You writes:

>Most probably. Delphi? it is a very pagan name... Chesterton might
>have had concerns, at least he would have said something mildly
>indulgent about its pagan roots. =)
>
>And no, I am not a Catholic.

Smiley noted, but IMHO it is still a good idea to discuss religion
elsewhere.
As said, nonsense. I commented on what G K Chesterton has written, and
to some that might have given the impression of being "more than only
little acquainted" with Catholic <whatever>. G K Chesterton namely is a
very well known Catholic. Hence the statements about what I am not.
Or do you mean that assuming that the name Delphi is associated with
paganism makes my post fall into the category "religious"?
Unbelievable. Is there /any/ trick which isn't considered acceptable in
trying to cover up the inherently intolerant pretending to be tolerant?
Regards,
// Rolf Lampa
 

Re: G K Chesterton

I don't recommend arguing with the boss man.
--JohnH
 

Re: G K Chesterton

Rolf, nobody told you to shut up, just to steer discussion of relition
*at* *all* to a different group. I am sorry if that is hard to
understand, but it is the rule.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] ?Vertex Systems Corp. ?Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
Want to help make Delphi and InterBase better? Use QC!
qc.borland.com -- Vote for important issues
 

Re: G K Chesterton

John Herbster writes:
Quote
I don't recommend arguing with the boss man.
Oh, the boss man can only use brute force if he has no valid arguments.
And if less brute force isn't sufficient, then more brute force will do.
But I do understand your consideration and good intent, so thank you for
that. :)
Regards,
// Rolf Lampa
 

Re: G K Chesterton

Craig Stuntz [TeamB] skrev:
Quote
Rolf Lampa [RIL] writes:

>Oh, the boss man can only use brute force if he has no valid
>arguments.

The purpose of this newsgroup is to discuss Delphi, not debate the
newsgroup rules.
I don't debate the news groups rules.
But YOU have an issue explaining how my post is religious in kind as
opposed to answering and discussing (even deepening and widening the
application of) the topic, which was about generalization and
specialization, which are essential concepts in defining what we call
"knowledge" (also named epistemology).
As said, use brute force, or explain your line of reasoning. Or just
drop it.
Regards,
// Rolf Lampa
 

Re: G K Chesterton

Rolf, take your discussion elsewhere. it is off-topic here. Period.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] ?Vertex Systems Corp. ?Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
Useful articles about InterBase development:
blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz/category/21.aspx
 

Re: G K Chesterton

Craig Stuntz [TeamB] writes:
Quote
Rolf, take your discussion elsewhere. it is off-topic here. Period.
Which discussion? The entire world can see that I am not debating the
news groups rules.
Instead I would be very thankful to learn about exactly what in my post on
the the topic of the thread, is, according to your opinion, not on topic.
I mean, in which way is the off-topic rule applicable for posts dealing
with the topic?
Regards,
// Rolf Lampa
 

Re: G K Chesterton

When it was started, this thread was about the progression
from universal tools (like knives, sticks, and fire) to
more specialized tools and possible analogies to the
progression of computer programming tools and technology.
--JohnH
 

Re: G K Chesterton

John Herbster writes:
Quote
When it was started, this thread was about the progression
from universal tools (like knives, sticks, and fire) to
more specialized tools and possible analogies to the
progression of computer programming tools and technology.
One can depict the current progression in many ways. For example, how to
"interpret" knives and sticks in more abstract terms, in order to avoid
comparing apples with peaches?
One attempt would be to say that knives and sticks are tools in the form
of "structures" applied to other structures, in order to (re)shape those
structures.
Now, today we have added to it other "levels of abstraction" in that we
do not only produce "structures" (hardware tools), we also equip the
tools with Behaviour (as a complement to structure). And not only that,
we can "teach" our tools to optimize a given task, with more or less
guidance when the actual work begin.
From biology we can learn how adaptive concepts can very efficiently
optimize itself for a given task, for example the immune system applies
a form of biochemical "genetic algorithms" in super-quickly trying out
different biochemical structures fit to lock up foreign intruders, etc.
In all this we clearly see distinguishable corrective, and protective
concept in action.
At last, if you compare some very significant foundational
characteristics of modern tools with the old knives and sticks, you'll
soon notice that in the old days the tools were both Guided and
Integrated (if several sub-systems were involved) by manual guidance,
that is, the human brain was the Real Time Integrator guiding the work
processes.
Today we have developed both adaptive and self optimizing control
systems for such things.
The next step, the big challenge for today and tomorrow's software
systems, seems to me to be stable solutions for Scalability and
Integration of the many "sub-technologies" we master today.
The conceptual solutions for Scalability and Integration already exist
(although not being well known or understood). Some of the basic
principles required for such have already been tried using Delphi, but
probably any modern programming language will do. The trick lays not in
the language, just like in the DNA the conceptual solutions it comprises
lays NOT embedded in the amino acids, instead the specifications of the
concepts which the amino acids embeds lays in how the chemical words are
ORGANIZED.
That is, I could have written this post in any natural language, using
entirely different words and letters, while still retaining the same
semantics.
And now Semantics, for Organizing and controlling structure, and
Behavior, and for directing Optimization and most important, Integrating
all this in Scalable systems, on different levels of abstraction (we can
simulate even "abstract principles" today, not only run physical
models), that is some of the aspects I find most eye-catching when
comparing with knives and sticks, and untamed fire.
But in G K Chestertons heyday they still didn't very much about
biological information systems.
Don't forget though that "biological information systems" are by no
means "modern". They have only started to slowly become KNOWN to us, and
to some extent also understood, in our days.
Even the hidden secret of computational performance lays embedded in
molecular biochemistry. I have dubbed it "implogic", that which is
illustrated by the specially designed IBM super computer "blue gene"
(2005) which were planned to fold a fairly simple protein. The plan was
to perform the folding task within a year 2005 of intense computation.
In our bodies millions of such (parallel) folding processes are
performed in less than a second, using the principle of Implogic.
One could say that we still have some ways to go before we can say that
we master the art of processing and integrating scalable and stable
dynamic information systems.
Regards,
// Rolf Lampa