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Re: Weird


2006-03-30 10:53:59 PM
delphi146
" Tom Corey" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Chris Burrows writes:
>Of course, but over a period of time it would be reasonable easy to
>distinguish the shiners from the stinkers. I regularly look at
>appropriate support forums as part of software purchasing decision
>making process these days. They can be very helpful.

So, to anyone capable of performing a Google search, the tool you're
seeking already pretty much exists.
And it automagically stay up to date. 8:-)
--
Thanks,
Brad.
 
 

Re: Weird

In article <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
says...
Quote
Thank goodness for .NET and verifiable code, so that we can leave this all
behind.
ROTFLMAO
Are you really that naive?
How precisely does .Net verify that code does not contain bugs?
Instability doesn't have to mean access-violations. Wrapping code
inside a protective shell will not prevent that code from being written
incorrectly and causing unintended side-effects or consequences.
(and you assume that your idealised IDE is a 100% managed IDE that only
permits installation of 100% managed components)
Your statement reminds me of the people that believed that COM signalled
the end of "DLL Hell" or that the Unrecoverable Application Error was
made history with the advent of the General Protection Fault.
Oh how we wish it were true, but alas, reality bites.
:D
Quote
My original challenge was in response
to the statement "A lot of problems blamed on IDE stability are actually
caused by components, especially third-party components." I dispute that.
Which put you in a very small minority, most of whom live under constant
supervision and a strict drug regime to moderate their behaviour.
;)
If you had challenged the view that IDE instability was ALWAYS the fault
of components, then you might have a leg to stand on. But the
observation was that "A lot" of problems.
Not even "most problems".
Just "a lot".
Which is an undeniable truth.
--
Jolyon Smith
 

Re: Weird

In article <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
says...
Quote
1. Somebody reports an serious, elusive, apparently random problem with the
IDE.
What you missed out was then then a specific instability example was
provided involving Delphi 6 and 7, which then triggered a question about
the -possibility- of a common component in use.
A question which afaik hasn't, as yet, been answered, so nothing is
ruled in or out either way.
fwiw - I was initially tempted to finally upgrade from my beloved and
highly stable Delphi 7 by the wide reports of general BDS 2006 gorgeousness,
but the subsequent reports of significant problems with the IDE (yes,
honest to goodness bugs! <gasp!>) makes me kinda glad that I kept my
money in my pocket)
:D
Quote
3. My response (based on 11 years daily Delphi use and more than 2 years
of BDS instability with minimal use of third party components) is prove it!
You do realise, don't you, that (see above) you joined in a thread-
morphed discussion of the stability of Delphi 6 and D7, NOT BDS?
Have you found a way to reliably reproduce the reported D6/D7 bug in BDS
using nothing but out-of-the-box components and can now reproduce that
BDS bug in Delphi 6 and D7.....
;)
--
Jolyon Smith
 

Re: Weird

" Tom Corey" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Tom Corey writes:

>I don't see it as a responsibility for anyone. I just thought that,
>given how quick you were to suggest Borland should do it, perhaps you
>might be equally willing to volunteer your own time and resources.

Chris, I apologize if I have come across overly rude. I am definitely
cranky this week. I broke my ankle while hiking this past Saturday, and
the requirement to keep it elevated, and the general low level ache, is
interfering with getting a decent night of sleep.

No problem - I am thick-skinned! You need to be if you try to suggest
anything that might need a bit of work or shift people out of their comfort
zones. Hope you recover soon!
This thread has become somewhat detached anyway - this is my summary of what
led to my responses:
1. Somebody reports an serious, elusive, apparently random problem with the
IDE.
2. Amongst the usual claims that he must be a troll, there is usually a
chorus of 'probably the fault of 3rd-party components'
3. My response (based on 11 years daily Delphi use and more than 2 years of
BDS instability with minimal use of third party components) is prove it!
 

Re: Weird

"Brad White" <bwhite at inebraska.com>writes
Quote

A) No. Components run inside the IDE memory space. For the whole
scheme to work, the IDE has to trust the components which leaves the
IDE vulnerable. Any wild pointer in a component could crash the IDE.

Thank goodness for .NET and verifiable code, so that we can leave this all
behind.
Quote
B) Yes. They have already given us the tools to do it. By using FastMM
with the appropriate settings you can run the IDE with your selected
components installed and try things out. Many, but perhaps not all,
memory related errors will be flagged and can be tracked down.

Yes - I already do that. It doesn't trap the random IDE crashes I have.
Fortunately, unlike others, mine are mostly when shutting down the BDS.
Quote
And before you start saying the Borland should be the ones doing this,
a) of course they already are, b) the only people that can do this
effectively are the people that are experiencing the problems.

Yes - of course. As long as it has already been established that the problem
is the fault of a 3rd-party component. My original challenge was in response
to the statement "A lot of problems blamed on IDE stability are actually
caused by components, especially third-party components." I dispute that.
 

Re: Weird

In article <442c7f8b$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
says...
Quote
"Jolyon Smith" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes>
>What you missed out was then then a specific instability example was
>provided involving Delphi 6 and 7, which then triggered a question about
>the -possibility- of a common component in use.
>

True - I was still concentrating on the original post. I apologise.
No worries, I should apologise also - that dig about being naive was
uncalled for.
It's no excuse really, but it is been a long day, and it is only 1/2 over!
<sigh>
--
Jolyon Smith
 

Re: Weird

"Jolyon Smith" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
In article <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
says...

>Thank goodness for .NET and verifiable code, so that we can leave this
>all
>behind.

How precisely does .Net verify that code does not contain bugs?

Don't let your imagination run away with you. I was referring to the
elimination / detection of wild pointers.
 

Re: Weird

"Jolyon Smith" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes>
Quote
What you missed out was then then a specific instability example was
provided involving Delphi 6 and 7, which then triggered a question about
the -possibility- of a common component in use.

True - I was still concentrating on the original post. I apologise.
Quote

fwiw - I was initially tempted to finally upgrade from my beloved and
highly stable Delphi 7 by the wide reports of general BDS 2006 gorgeousness,
but the subsequent reports of significant problems with the IDE (yes,
honest to goodness bugs! <gasp!>) makes me kinda glad that I kept my
money in my pocket)

I wouldn't go back to Delphi 7 now - if I wanted to it would be difficult with the
additional Form items used by D2006. Apart from regular AVs on exiting it I
haven't had the stability problems that I had with Delphi 8 and BDS2005, but then
I only use BDS2006 for Win32 development and have disabled all of the
suspect stuff (Together, 'trainer wheels' etc. etc.)
Quote

You do realise, don't you, that (see above) you joined in a thread-
morphed discussion of the stability of Delphi 6 and D7, NOT BDS?

Now I do!
 

Re: Weird

Quote
Thank goodness for .NET and verifiable code
"Verifiable"?
Quote
Fortunately, unlike others, mine are mostly when shutting down the BDS.
Those actually are good candidates for 3rd party component/tools problems :-)
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
_____________________________________________
Jim Cooper XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Skype : jim.cooper
Tabdee Ltd www.tabdee.ltd.uk
TurboSync - Connecting Delphi to your Palm
_____________________________________________
 

Re: Weird

"Jim Cooper" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote

>Thank goodness for .NET and verifiable code

"Verifiable"?

Well, OK, I may have been exaggerating a little to make a point ;-)
However the provision of tools and facilities in .NET like PEVerify, that
help you to verify type-safety, the garbage collector etc. will go a long
way towards helping to prevent or otherwise trap and analyse some of those
obscure and elusive runtime problems that are prevalent in Win32..
 

Re: Weird

Quote
will go a long way
Well, some way. it is still pretty easy to{*word*222}up an IDE from the inside :-)
I don't think type-safety is often an issue, BTW.
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
_____________________________________________
Jim Cooper XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Skype : jim.cooper
Tabdee Ltd www.tabdee.ltd.uk
TurboSync - Connecting Delphi to your Palm
_____________________________________________
 

Re: Weird

Jolyon Smith writes:
Quote
No worries, I should apologise also
Turning into an all-out love fest here. Glad it is Friday.
Getting my "real" cast this afternoon. I have a short window between
when they remove the temporary cast and put on the permanent one to
scratch my ankle. I.Can.Hardly.Wait.
 

Re: Weird

Tom Corey writes:
Quote
Jolyon Smith writes:


>No worries, I should apologise also


Turning into an all-out love fest here. Glad it is Friday.


Getting my "real" cast this afternoon. I have a short window between
when they remove the temporary cast and put on the permanent one to
scratch my ankle. I.Can.Hardly.Wait.
I had a cast on for about six weeks several years ago. My wife swaid I was a
real bear to live with, but I don't think I was that bad.
I went to the fracture clinic to get the damn thing removed, and the doc said,
"better get this X-rayed just to be safe". I hobbled down to to the XRay
room. While I was waiting, I gave my ankle a good scratch and bent my leg and
and ankle under the chair - boy, it was the greatest feeling on earth. Got
the X-ray, went back up stairs, the doc look at the X-Ray and said, "Hmm, we
should put another case on for a couple of weeks". I was devastated.
Bill
 

Re: Weird

Rick Carter writes:
Quote
>the doc look at the X-Ray and said, "Hmm, we
>should put another case on for a couple of weeks". I was devastated.


Well, a case should beat a six-pack, even if you did have to make it last
for a couple weeks.
Plus, it serves as a good prop, while being consumed.
Were you devestated before or after you and the doc
Quote
downed that case?
I'd rather not get into that....
Quote

Rick Carter
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Chair, Delphi/Paradox SIG, Cincinnati PC Users Group

--- posted by geoForum on delphi.newswhat.com
 

Re: Weird

Bill Mogk writes:
Quote
I had a cast on for about six weeks several years ago. My wife swaid
I was a real bear to live with, but I don't think I was that bad.
As anyone who reads my posts here no doubt knows, I am the very sould
of genteel good behavior. I doubt my wife will find any valid
complaints :)
Quote
I went to the fracture clinic to get the damn thing removed, and the
doc said, "better get this X-rayed just to be safe". I hobbled down
to to the XRay room. While I was waiting, I gave my ankle a good
scratch and bent my leg and and ankle under the chair - boy, it was
the greatest feeling on earth.
Yeah, I have only been in the temporary a few days, and I can already
understand exactly what you're talking about.
Quote
Got the X-ray, went back up stairs,
the doc look at the X-Ray and said, "Hmm, we should put
another case on for a couple of weeks". I was devastated.
I've got a really bad sprain (that'll happen when your foot gets
temporarily yanked off your leg bones and then you have to hike two
hours on it to get back to civilization, I guess), but I suspect the
break is pretty minor. It sure looked that way on the preliminary
x-rays.