On Tue, 4 Jul 2000 09:14:52 +0100, "Joanna Carter"
Quote
<JoannaC....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>"Mark Smith" <msmi...@cix.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:VA.00000119.e18dfb63@batman...
>> In my experience, it is fairly accurate. Here in the UK, it was quite a
>while
>> before the Borland Users Group started talking about Patterns. I'm not
>sure if
>> it was me or Joanna Carter who did the first presentation, but I got lots
>of
>> blank faces every time I talked about the subject. While knowledge of the
>> subject has expanded (Big shout out to Joanna here. Respeck!), It's not
>been
>> adopted very much, based on what people are saying on their CVs.
>Well thanks for the mention Mark. I must admit I had not seen this listing,
>but such a book is something I have often been asked about. If the kind of
>discussions I had at DCon were anything to go by, there would certainly seem
>to be interest in such a book and I have been sorely tempted (and requested)
>to write such.
>I am in discussion with another publisher who has a good response to a book
>they have published on Delphi and is looking to do another. Maybe we could
>collaborate ?
>If there are folks out there who would like the idea, then let us know as
>this would give us an indication of whether our time and effort would be
>well spent.
I realize this is an old post, but I've read 300 so far and only have
75 to go
One thing I have always found about books on Delphi, C++, etc. is the
content usually follows a number of predefined patterns.
Teach your self in x days, Idiot's guide, beginners, etc.
Which generally seem to be a summary of the "manuals", or an expansion
of the "getting started" manual usually contained with the product.
These tend to be so simple that they become boring within a few
chapters.
Developers guides, Unleashed, etc.
Which expand on the manuals in specific areas, these are very helpful
in gaining an understanding of the "programming" specifics. I found
Steve Teixera and Xavier Pacheco's Delphi5 developers guide a very
"enjoyable" read. (I did however have to take a stanley knife to the
book at chapter 24 so I could handle the book in the bath, I now have
2 books :-).
These are very good for specific reference type questions where the
manuals are lacking in examples, or providing a step by step guide to
a finished thing, again where the manual usually says "you can do
this" but not enough "how you get to here". My only complaint about
these books is the amount of source code contained in the examples,
this is especially annoying when a CD is included which could contain
this source, or contains a duplicate of the printed source. They also
seem to suffer by the author(s) running out of steam by the 500th
page.
Training videos are, on the whole, an excellent way of teaching the
basics and some of the coding/naming conventions. I viewed 2-3 videos,
out of a set of 5, from an ATS, I believe, course on Delphi3. The
"actor" was a real programmer, the only problem was the quiet monotone
of his voice. Being able to see the visual use of a visual product
helps immensely.
Obviously a better extension of this would be to have the training on
DVD. This would allow the product to be viewed in a window while the
trainee actually copied the actor. I realize this can be done in a
formal training environment with videos, but having to re-focus
between TV and PC causes breaks. Also with a TV, as apposed to a real
person, some trainees get left behind in a room of x people.
All of these methods have their own merits. But I find they lack two
major points for the trainee...
1, A defined useable product at the end.
2, An in site into the OO principles except where they relate to
encapsulating the environment, not the extended design.
I realize there are, within Delphi, a number of product types:
Finished order/invoice/etc. systems.
Delphi controls/components.
ActiveX controls
OLE/COM (which can be sub defined)
etc.
But the writing of most of these could be used within a finalized
product.
I'm guessing here but most people wishing to use Delphi, C++, Java
etc. are initially going to work on software for use within the
corporate (SOP/PO/PL/GL/etc.) environment. Using this as a basis for
the teaching it must surely be possible to work through the training
and have a fully blown, if somewhat limited, system. The trainee can
then take this product/methodoligy and adapt it for other uses. I
personally suffer from not being able to see a use for a lot of the
examples in these books, or the examples are far too isolated from
each other to allow them to jell together.
I have read the first 3 months from the EXE site. This has been very
informative. I would even say that this is giving me ideas on how
"objects" are related to data/actions and how to create base objects
to perform functions that other objects will require. I can almost
visualize this, which I believe helps me to understand the principles.
If this was extended into working examples within a book I for one
would buy it. If the source code was "saved" at various working stages
this would be even better. I could then browse the book, and If I felt
competent to start from stage 5.27, I could. Obviously I could go back
to older stages Perhaps various stages could be specific types of
product (OLE/ActiveX/etc) and sub stages being used for various levels
of complexity. By the end of the book I would have a simple; customer,
order, invoice system. I could even start with the finished product
and then try to adapt it by going backwards.
I learnt the basics of the RPG language through a one week ATS paper
course, the rest was through being dumped in at the deep end with real
code... I guess anyone can "learn" "Delphi [object pascal] the
language" "C++ the language" within this short time. The real
knowledge is knowing everything that is lumped in with the basic
add/sub/div/store/file IO. You could argue that all the lumped
together stuff is not "part of the language". But is part of a tool
kit provided. The ISO/ANSI standard C++ templates etc. are all extras
to the basic language constructs (if that's the correct term).
A book that included a practical implementation of real class design,
real OO DB work, finishing with a true framework to build on would be
of great benefit to mainly.
Would it sell? I think it would, if only for the basic framework
alone. I believe this is an area that is covered in other types of
books that are lacking because they are to academic, great for those
who go to university for 2-3 years but not very good for those who
need to get up to speed within weeks/months. Afterwards, with
experience we can always re-invent and come up with our own way of
doing things or build on the practical experience we would have
gained.
My only other suggestion would be that the easy/early learner stages
were written by a trainee in the language, or at least those stages
were developed by teaching a trainee, and then writing about it. Far
too many early stages are written by someone with so much insight that
they teach the "click this, drag that, use this" but never answer the
readers "why, what if, what about"
Jon
Jonathan Wilson, Snr AP AS400
Someday England will be Internet complient,
Until then the phone bill goes up
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