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Delphi 4 vs VB

I have Delphi 2 Pro. I am considering upgrading to Delphi 4 Pro.  I bulked
at upgrade to Delphi 3 Pro because I thought that the upgrade price was a
little much, old Turbo Pascal user.

Anyway my question, would I be better served upgrading from Delphi 2 Pro to
Delphi 4 Pro or using the money ($250) to help upgrade from VB5 Pro to VB6
Enterprise vs VB6 Pro.  I do not have the $$$ to do both.

 

Re:Delphi 4 vs VB


    It depends on what you are planning to do with it. I personally do not
think the price difference between VB Pro and VB Enterprise is worth it. In
addition, you are likely to see a greater increase in productivity going
from D2 to D4 than upgrading VB. But this depends on how much legacy code
you plan to maintain. You can not just recompile D2 programs in D4, unless
you use no third-party components and do not rely on the undocumented
OpenTools API, and a few other things. You will need to make a few fixes in
those cases.
    I personally think the enhancements to Delphi between versions 2 and 4
are pretty impressive and well worth the upgrade price. I just escaped from
a VB project that used VB 5.0 Enterprise, and I must say that the word
"Enterprise" is more marketing than reality. D4 is a much better tool and
uses a much better language, but the final decision depends on what
resources you have at your disposal. If this is for a team of developers who
know VB but not Delphi, and/or you have a lot of VB code to maintain, then
it is a more difficult decision. If it is simply a question of what tool
will enable you personally to acheive the greatest productivity in the short
run and the long run, then I'd recommend D4, even with the remaining IDE
bugs.
Quote
Glenn wrote in message <6rug6l$...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>...
>I have Delphi 2 Pro. I am considering upgrading to Delphi 4 Pro.  I bulked
>at upgrade to Delphi 3 Pro because I thought that the upgrade price was a
>little much, old Turbo Pascal user.

>Anyway my question, would I be better served upgrading from Delphi 2 Pro to
>Delphi 4 Pro or using the money ($250) to help upgrade from VB5 Pro to VB6
>Enterprise vs VB6 Pro.  I do not have the $$$ to do both.

Re:Delphi 4 vs VB


 Please do not even speak about VB, that langauge is a nightmare for
anything
that is serious..
 D is better in all accounts...
 how ever if you are looking for a Job then i would just continue to keep
the
current version of VB in your head and learn the hell of D, there are lots
of
company's now re'doing there app from VB to D now, my companyu work for
is all D now, VB 5.0 proved out to be nothing but a Bogged down peace of
****///
 we make Wire and cable and need accurate  graphic drawings and
calculations and we need then when we are talking the next few breaths not
the
next lunch break!,..
 and we also need them to not cause unexplainable errors and system
resource suck downs onto of the Network Code it is tied into,...
  So Builder and Delphi has become a major player at this company..
 We had VC++ 5.0 and that was just riddled with syntax flaus. and code
generation problems..
  Builder and Delphi isn't perfect either so since this is true for all
products out ther i find that these two seem to make me sleep much better
at nigh..

Glenn <gp...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<6rug6l$...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>...

Quote
> I have Delphi 2 Pro. I am considering upgrading to Delphi 4 Pro.  I
bulked
> at upgrade to Delphi 3 Pro because I thought that the upgrade price was a
> little much, old Turbo Pascal user.

> Anyway my question, would I be better served upgrading from Delphi 2 Pro
to
> Delphi 4 Pro or using the money ($250) to help upgrade from VB5 Pro to
VB6
> Enterprise vs VB6 Pro.  I do not have the $$$ to do both.

Re:Delphi 4 vs VB


Thanks again

Re:Delphi 4 vs VB


    I've been using Visual Basic (4 and 5, Enterprise) for about 2 years
now, but I'm considering making the switch to Delphi 4. This is mainly
because of specific differences; differences that may make the switch an
"upgrade". Note that I don't want to condemn any language, but just get some
insight from Delphi users =)

    Delphi supports control over threads via the TThread object. VB can do
multithreading, but either without much control (via ActiveX EXE's and
thread pooling), or with mucho GPF's while debugging custom solutions.

    VB has had good database support. Using technologies like ADO, RDO, and
DAO has been pretty straightforward. My programs need to talk with a SQL
Server. How does Delphi fare?

    I've been a Pascal fan since Jr. High when Turbo Pascal 3.0 came out :)
the Delphi compiler still seems to not only be fast, but effective at
performing optimizations. Delphi seems to have some tricks up its sleeve to
speed up object creation.

    Delphi 3 had a great interface for designing forms. No doubt the menu
editor will probably be copied by VB a year or two from now. In VB, menus
created on an MDI parent form must be re-created on every child form (very
lame). Users have virtually abandoned VB's menu editor for a better control,
such as DataDynamics' ActiveBar control (www.datadynamics.com).

    VB has had a strong IDE in the way it organizes code windows, forms, and
navigation through large project "groups" of more than one project. Delphi,
however, has a wonderful feature (lacking in VB) where when a control
changes its name, the change is propogated though the code (if I remember
correctly, that is). The new hyperlink feature should make it even better.

    VB has always just plain sucked at making distributables. It's almost as
if Microsoft forgot that VB developers might want their software to work on
other machines. Users have, once again, virtually abandoned this feature for
third-party products such as InstallShield or Wise. Delphi can produce a
single EXE (and one DLL?) to releive this headache. This is good, though an
end user will prefer a smaller footprint. How is Delphi at finding
"dependencies" such as needed DLLs?

    VB5 finally gave attention to polymorphism -- a crucial feature for
creating and maintaining large-scale projects. VB5 allows an object to
implement (or "eat") the qualities of another object, but only one level
deep. This is laughable compared to Pascal's strong support for virtual
methods and other polymorphism.

    So, I'm considering the switch. Which of these topics should I be
concerned about, if at all?

Thanks in advance :)

Jon Person (Johnny Blaze)

Re:Delphi 4 vs VB


 Lets put is this Way , You are correct in all cases, If MS don't get there
act together VB will be a dying hourse when i say hourse i mean it !, its
Slow and scattered brainded all over the place.

  the reason D seems to perform as you have seen is because the
language and compiler generating code is much the same as the borland
C complilers with the Pascal Syntax of course

Johnny Blaze <jbl...@rukind.com> wrote in article
<35ee53a...@news.mho.net>...

Quote
>     I've been using Visual Basic (4 and 5, Enterprise) for about 2 years
> now, but I'm considering making the switch to Delphi 4. This is mainly
> because of specific differences; differences that may make the switch an
> "upgrade". Note that I don't want to condemn any language, but just get
some
> insight from Delphi users =)

>     Delphi supports control over threads via the TThread object. VB can
do
> multithreading, but either without much control (via ActiveX EXE's and
> thread pooling), or with mucho GPF's while debugging custom solutions.

>     VB has had good database support. Using technologies like ADO, RDO,
and
> DAO has been pretty straightforward. My programs need to talk with a SQL
> Server. How does Delphi fare?

>     I've been a Pascal fan since Jr. High when Turbo Pascal 3.0 came out
:)
> the Delphi compiler still seems to not only be fast, but effective at
> performing optimizations. Delphi seems to have some tricks up its sleeve
to
> speed up object creation.

>     Delphi 3 had a great interface for designing forms. No doubt the menu
> editor will probably be copied by VB a year or two from now. In VB, menus
> created on an MDI parent form must be re-created on every child form
(very
> lame). Users have virtually abandoned VB's menu editor for a better
control,
> such as DataDynamics' ActiveBar control (www.datadynamics.com).

>     VB has had a strong IDE in the way it organizes code windows, forms,
and
> navigation through large project "groups" of more than one project.
Delphi,
> however, has a wonderful feature (lacking in VB) where when a control
> changes its name, the change is propogated though the code (if I remember
> correctly, that is). The new hyperlink feature should make it even
better.

>     VB has always just plain sucked at making distributables. It's almost
as
> if Microsoft forgot that VB developers might want their software to work
on
> other machines. Users have, once again, virtually abandoned this feature
for
> third-party products such as InstallShield or Wise. Delphi can produce a
> single EXE (and one DLL?) to releive this headache. This is good, though
an
> end user will prefer a smaller footprint. How is Delphi at finding
> "dependencies" such as needed DLLs?

>     VB5 finally gave attention to polymorphism -- a crucial feature for
> creating and maintaining large-scale projects. VB5 allows an object to
> implement (or "eat") the qualities of another object, but only one level
> deep. This is laughable compared to Pascal's strong support for virtual
> methods and other polymorphism.

>     So, I'm considering the switch. Which of these topics should I be
> concerned about, if at all?

> Thanks in advance :)

> Jon Person (Johnny Blaze)

Re:Delphi 4 vs VB


Delphi is gay
VB mmm good

Delphi is faster and perhaps more structured but object pascal smells of
wee, the vcl is no big deal and inprise are going bust soon so you might as
well switch now ;->

Re:Delphi 4 vs VB


Personally, I plan on supporting both languages - VB5 and Delphi 4.  There
are many situations that will require the use of VB due to its strong
integration and support for other Microsoft products.  However, If I need to
develop an application that does not require this level of integregation
then I'll be using Delphi.  Also, with Delphi 4, there is direct support for
Oracle databases, which is what I use for a backend.

If you want product integration - VB.
If you want strong object oriented benefits, fast execution, and easier
distribution - Delphi.

My two cents.
--
==========================================================================
Timothy L. Trimble - Extended Technology Systems
"Extending Information Via Mobile Computer Technology"
ttrim...@fda.net  -  ICQ#: 1685060
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it."
==========================================================================

Quote
David H. Bolton wrote in message ...
>In article <35ee53a...@news.mho.net>, Johnny Blaze <jbl...@rukind.com>
>writes
>>    I've been using Visual Basic (4 and 5, Enterprise) for about 2 years
>>now, but I'm considering making the switch to Delphi 4. This is mainly
>>because of specific differences; differences that may make the switch an
>>"upgrade". Note that I don't want to condemn any language, but just get
some
>>insight from Delphi users =)

>>    Delphi supports control over threads via the TThread object. VB can do
>>multithreading, but either without much control (via ActiveX EXE's and
>>thread pooling), or with mucho GPF's while debugging custom solutions.

>>    VB has had good database support. Using technologies like ADO, RDO,
and
>>DAO has been pretty straightforward. My programs need to talk with a SQL
>>Server. How does Delphi fare?
>Very easy. The standard version can use ODBC. D4 supports MTS as well.

>>    I've been a Pascal fan since Jr. High when Turbo Pascal 3.0 came out
:)
>>the Delphi compiler still seems to not only be fast, but effective at
>>performing optimizations. Delphi seems to have some tricks up its sleeve
to
>>speed up object creation.
>Delphi lacks multiple inheritance but otherwise is a pretty powerful
>Object system.
>>    Delphi 3 had a great interface for designing forms. No doubt the menu
>>editor will probably be copied by VB a year or two from now. In VB, menus
>>created on an MDI parent form must be re-created on every child form (very
>>lame). Users have virtually abandoned VB's menu editor for a better
control,
>>such as DataDynamics' ActiveBar control (www.datadynamics.com).

>>    VB has had a strong IDE in the way it organizes code windows, forms,
and
>>navigation through large project "groups" of more than one project.
Delphi,
>>however, has a wonderful feature (lacking in VB) where when a control
>>changes its name, the change is propogated though the code (if I remember
>>correctly, that is). The new hyperlink feature should make it even better.
>The name change is good but isn't fully handled, in your own code, but
>member functions etc are renamed. However a global rename with care
>finishes it off.

>>    VB has always just plain sucked at making distributables. It's almost
as
>>if Microsoft forgot that VB developers might want their software to work
on
>>other machines. Users have, once again, virtually abandoned this feature
for
>>third-party products such as InstallShield or Wise. Delphi can produce a
>>single EXE (and one DLL?) to releive this headache. This is good, though
an
>>end user will prefer a smaller footprint. How is Delphi at finding
>>"dependencies" such as needed DLLs?
>Well if you run it without a DLL it will tell you whats missing! (D) D4
>will show all involved DLLs in View Debug/Module window.
>>    VB5 finally gave attention to polymorphism -- a crucial feature for
>>creating and maintaining large-scale projects. VB5 allows an object to
>>implement (or "eat") the qualities of another object, but only one level
>>deep. This is laughable compared to Pascal's strong support for virtual
>>methods and other polymorphism.

>>    So, I'm considering the switch. Which of these topics should I be
>>concerned about, if at all?

>>Thanks in advance :)

>>Jon Person (Johnny Blaze)

>--
>David H. Bolton

>"Because I'm worth it"
>(Remove spam from header if replying)

Re:Delphi 4 vs VB


  And this would be the pathetic anon revisited....   As usual, a moronic
attempt to start a flame war...   When will these children learn there are
actually {*word*62}s on these news groups, and usually only have a good laugh at
these, tho wasteful, humurous posts....

--
Jason Wallace
SL Software
Dark...@SLSoftware.reno.nv.us
--
"We are Microsoft.  You will be assimilated.  Resistance is Futile."
--

Quote
MIGHTYMOONLORD wrote in message

<906550751.12885.0.nnrp-11.d4e48...@news.demon.co.uk>...
Quote

>Delphi is gay
>VB mmm good

>Delphi is faster and perhaps more structured but object pascal smells of
>wee, the vcl is no big deal and inprise are going bust soon so you might as
>well switch now ;->

Re:Delphi 4 vs VB


Mr. Jason,
I take exception with your comment.  I'm a 41 year old owner of my own
company who has a sincere interest in developing applications with both VB
and Delphi.  My response to a sincere question is not an attempt to begin a
flame war.  However, the posting of your message is the sole instigation of
such.  If you don't like these messages then don't read them and let those
of us who are truly trying to be helpful to others continue to do so.

--
==========================================================================
Timothy L. Trimble - Extended Technology Systems
"Extending Information Via Mobile Computer Technology"
ttrim...@fda.net  -  ICQ#: 1685060
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it."
==========================================================================

Quote
Jason Wallace wrote in message <360919a...@news.greatbasin.net>...
>  And this would be the pathetic anon revisited....   As usual, a moronic
>attempt to start a flame war...   When will these children learn there are
>actually {*word*62}s on these news groups, and usually only have a good laugh at
>these, tho wasteful, humurous posts....

>--
>Jason Wallace
>SL Software
>Dark...@SLSoftware.reno.nv.us
>--
>"We are Microsoft.  You will be assimilated.  Resistance is Futile."
>--

>MIGHTYMOONLORD wrote in message
><906550751.12885.0.nnrp-11.d4e48...@news.demon.co.uk>...

>>Delphi is gay
>>VB mmm good

>>Delphi is faster and perhaps more structured but object pascal smells of
>>wee, the vcl is no big deal and inprise are going bust soon so you might
as
>>well switch now ;->

Re:Delphi 4 vs VB


MightyMoonlord obviously lacks IQ.

I can't see what the argument is.  Both products are good at certain things.
Delphi 4 is fully object orientated, compiled, strongly typed, supports easy
creation of native code components (not heavyweight ActiveX controls) as
well as supporting both major component models (COM + CORBA).  Visual Basic
integrates well with Office and is arguably better supported.

There are many things you can do with Delphi that you cannot do with VB5.

Quote
MIGHTYMOONLORD wrote in message

<906550751.12885.0.nnrp-11.d4e48...@news.demon.co.uk>...
Quote

>Delphi is gay
>VB mmm good

>Delphi is faster and perhaps more structured but object pascal smells of
>wee, the vcl is no big deal and inprise are going bust soon so you might as
>well switch now ;->

Re:Delphi 4 vs VB


I won't stoop to personal insults on a delphi newsgroup, especially not to
matt who's going through a very
difficult time at the moment with his sex change.

Delphi would be cool if anyone *liked* programming in pascal,
personally it makes me feel like the computers telling me what to do
with it's restrictive type system and the poor class library (nothing
equivalent to stl etc)
+ bad help system don't help (in fact a poor help system is the worst sin
any dev. environment can commit).

But the thing that really concerns me, and that would prevent me from
choosing it as a viable commercial solution,
is inprise's poor financial standing and the fact that all of their chief
developers (hjelsberg etc) are now working
at microsoft-  the kings of development software. In the olden days I used
to love turbo pascal, borland c++ etc but times change
and as a developer you have to keep up with those changes or go the way of
the dinosaurs. I use vc, and will kick that out and learn java when if/it
takes over.

Re:Delphi 4 vs VB


Quote
MIGHTYMOONLORD wrote in message

<906653284.29816.0.nnrp-07.d4e48...@news.demon.co.uk>...

Quote
>I won't stoop to personal insults on a delphi newsgroup, especially not to
>matt who's going through a very
>difficult time at the moment with his sex change.

MightyMoonlord obviously has deeply rooted psychological problems.  His
untrue and personally insulting remarks are clearly attempts to distract
attention from the real issue here which is his constant denial of his true
{*word*225}ity.

Quote
>Delphi would be cool if anyone *liked* programming in pascal,
>personally it makes me feel like the computers telling me what to do
>with it's restrictive type system and the poor class library (nothing
>equivalent to stl etc)
>+ bad help system don't help (in fact a poor help system is the worst sin
>any dev. environment can commit).

Is this an argument about what people supposedly 'like' or the relative
merits of the two products as programming tools,

The minor annoyance of type checking is more than offset by the assurance
that you will not find 1000 run time type errors, memory leaks, etc, etc.

The help system is more than adequete.

The class system (VCL) is designed around the way the IDE works and 10 times
easier to use than the monolithic MFC.

As for STL, I have heard from many people that the VC implementation is full
of holes and does not work properly.

Quote
>But the thing that really concerns me, and that would prevent me from
>choosing it as a viable commercial solution,
>is inprise's poor financial standing and the fact that all of their chief
>developers (hjelsberg etc) are now working
>at microsoft-  the kings of development software. In the olden days I used
>to love turbo pascal, borland c++ etc but times change
>and as a developer you have to keep up with those changes or go the way of
>the dinosaurs. I use vc, and will kick that out and learn java when if/it
>takes over.

Is implying that Inprise are in a less than stable financial situation
libelous ?  Is the size of the company directly related to how good the
product is ?

It says something when Delphis chief architect was top of Microsofts
headhunting list and some of Delphis better features have now found there
way into Visual J++ 6.

Re:Delphi 4 vs VB


In article <906550751.12885.0.nnrp-11.d4e48...@news.demon.co.uk>,
q...@qwe.qwe says...

Quote

> Delphi is gay
> VB mmm good

> Delphi is faster and perhaps more structured but object pascal smells of
> wee, the vcl is no big deal and inprise are going bust soon so you might as
> well switch now ;->

10 PRINT "BASIC ARE FOR LOOSERS!"
20 GOTO 10

Re:Delphi 4 vs VB


Tim Trimble heeft geschreven in bericht <6udn2n$cj...@supernews.com>...

Quote
>Mr. Jason,
>I take exception with your comment.  I'm a 41 year old owner of my own
>company who has a sincere interest in developing applications with both VB
>and Delphi.  My response to a sincere question is not an attempt to begin a
>flame war.  However, the posting of your message is the sole instigation of
>such.  If you don't like these messages then don't read them and let those
>of us who are truly trying to be helpful to others continue to do so.

Mr. Trimble,

With all due respect and sorry for jumping in, but you _have_ ran into the
trap of "Mighty MoonLord"...and Jason Wallace was right I'm afraid.
It's so simple: start "Delphi sucks" or "Delphi vs. VB" and within 24 hours
you have a flaming news thread  with 50 entries...

Regards,

Regards,
Dirk Claessens
--------------------------------------------
Agfa Belgium - sorry, forged email adress
--------------------------------------------

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