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Frank Andreas de Groot
Delphi Developer |
Frank Andreas de Groot
Delphi Developer |
My view on the "Delphi is dead" issue2003-11-30 02:12:10 PM delphi227 I think all informed, non-biased people here agree that "Delphi is dead" in the sense that Borland has stopped developing the Win32 version many years ago. But Delphi's user base is so huge (especially in countries where Borland refuses to sell, like Russia), that it is creating it is own gravity. And MS will never s{*word*99} the Win32 API either. So Delphi (not the .net version) remains the best choice for Windows development for many years to come. |
John van Nieuwkerk
Delphi Developer |
2003-11-30 02:25:21 PM
Re:My view on the "Delphi is dead" issue
MS wont s{*word*99} the Win32 API for a long time, but many new features of
windows will be .NET only. I think Win32 will be officially 'depreciated' in the next major version of windows. I agree many people will use Delphi32 for a good few years yet as their primary dev tool but it is only a matter of time before people convert to .NET. QuoteI think all informed, non-biased people here agree that "Delphi is dead" |
Richard Grossman
Delphi Developer |
2003-11-30 05:37:39 PM
Re:My view on the "Delphi is dead" issue
John van Nieuwkerk writes:
QuoteMS wont s{*word*99} the Win32 API for a long time, but many new features of |
Frank Andreas de Groot
Delphi Developer |
2003-11-30 05:52:04 PM
Re:My view on the "Delphi is dead" issue
"John van Nieuwkerk" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
QuoteMS wont s{*word*99} the Win32 API for a long time, but many new features of And it is just your own conjecture to assume that .net will have exclusive Windows OS functionality that will not be available to non-.net developers. This would be highly damaging to MS. |
Will DeWitt Jr.
Delphi Developer |
2003-11-30 08:12:11 PM
Re:My view on the "Delphi is dead" issue
John van Nieuwkerk writes:
QuoteMS wont s{*word*99} the Win32 API for a long time, but many new features of functions are basically wrapped by the user-mode functions, and unless they introduce .NET into the kernel (which they definitely won't) then you'll only see slower performance by the .NET wrappers Microsoft has created. In any event, baseless claims don't make the case for .NET. I wouldn't even believe Microsoft if they said they were moving everything to native .NET and making the Win32 API a layer above .NET. When that day comes, when they ship an OS that does this and it is verifiable, that's the day I will believe that. Will |
Frank Andreas de Groot
Delphi Developer |
2003-11-30 09:22:45 PM
Re:My view on the "Delphi is dead" issue
"Will DeWitt Jr." <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
QuoteVery very unlikely. I just don't see them re-writing the entire When you run it, it has the wrong size. This bug has been reported 1.5 years ago and I have an official MS rep. reply that consisted of a lot of code that overrides stuff in the "OnCreate". Conclusion: Either MS is desperately overburdoned or they have utter disregard for quality, or both, because there are many more bugs that are more serious and none of them seem to get fixed. It doesn't look good, in any case. I was very e{*word*277}d after I bought C# .net and started to make a simple form but I never got the "Open file" dialog box working. It tuned out that there is a huge bug in it that renders it unusable. Reported 2 years ago, never fixed. MS latest .net runtime has exactly ZERO bugfixes. And they are going to replace the OS? ROTFLMAO |
Chris Brooksbank
Delphi Developer |
2003-12-01 03:47:36 AM
Re:My view on the "Delphi is dead" issue
This situation reminds me a little of when I was programming in CA-Clipper
( A DOS development language ). Computer Associates launched a Windows development product called CA Visual Objects. This was sold as the easiest migration path from Clipper to Windows applications. But it wasnt very good, especially when Delphi came out. So although more code had to be rewritten in Delphi a lot more developers switched to Delphi because it was so much better. ( Anybody know if people still develop in visual objects ). Also VB(Visual Basic) had many limitations compared to Delphi. Now we can choose C# or Delphi ( or others ). Maybe best way to get realistic info and cut thru FUD we need to wait for Delphi 8 sales figures. Also number of enhancements for Delphi 8 IDE compared to already large number of VS addons ( many of which are free ). We need actual numbers rather than people arguin back and forth. I dont think Borland management help in many ways. e.g I monitored sites for both MS and Borland developer conferences. MS let anybody view any sessions with slides and sycnched voice. Havent even found Borland slideshows. Quote"Frank Andreas de Groot" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes |
Cruxy
Delphi Developer |
2003-12-01 04:12:41 PM
Re:My view on the "Delphi is dead" issueQuoteMS wont s{*word*99} the Win32 API for a long time, but many new features of |
ozbear2
Delphi Developer |
2003-12-01 04:58:53 PM
Re:My view on the "Delphi is dead" issue
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 07:12:10 +0100, "Frank Andreas de Groot"
<XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes: QuoteI think all informed, non-biased people here agree that "Delphi is dead" in the machinery and C# too). I don't consider Delphi dead by a long shot though. It has features as a language I still want. As an IDE I prefer VS.Net's. Certainly the help and examples available there are superior to anything Borland ever produced. <snip> QuoteAnd MS will never s{*word*99} the Win32 API either. Quote
whether to .net or .not.net an application's development path. Oz |
Frank Andreas de Groot
Delphi Developer |
2003-12-01 10:15:04 PM
Re:My view on the "Delphi is dead" issue
"Eric Schreiber" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
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Thomas Miller
Delphi Developer |
2003-12-01 11:14:06 PM
Re:My view on the "Delphi is dead" issue
The only reason Delphi is dead is because there isn't any support by
Borland. Where is the SP. In another thread, someone said, people will come out to support Delphi when 8 ships. I doubt it. I think it is quite because people are looking else where. Borland continues to shoot themselves in the foot. They are doing the same thing they did with Kylix with Delphi 8. How many Linux user want a Kylix with C 90% Yes 10% No How many Linux C users will buy Kylix with C 10% Yes 90% No How many want Delphi for .Net 90% Yes 10% No How many will buy in the first 18 months 10% Yes 90% No I love Pascal. It is my language of choice. I love Delphi. It is my programming environment of choice. Unfortunately, Borland has abandoned VCL 32 development. Delphi is dead. People will continue to use it, as I will, but I am hoping that great things will happen around FreePascal and Lazarus. Anyone want to help me port dbExpress to FreePascal? We will have the source and won't have to wait 18 months to 2 years for bug fixes. We can make them ourselves. www.freepascal.org/ sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/ Frank Andreas de Groot writes: QuoteI think all informed, non-biased people here agree that "Delphi is dead" in the Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer BSS Accounting & Distribution Software BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork www.bss-software.com sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus |
Thomas Miller
Delphi Developer |
2003-12-01 11:21:33 PM
Re:My view on the "Delphi is dead" issueQuote
Borland is their own worst enemy. I had hoped to spend the next 10 years programming in some sort of Borland IDE and Pascal. I still hope to be spending my 10 next years programming in Pascal. Borland IDEs has become optional. -- Thomas Miller Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer BSS Accounting & Distribution Software BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork www.bss-software.com sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus |
Michael Bennett
Delphi Developer |
2003-12-01 11:57:31 PM
Re:My view on the "Delphi is dead" issue
Frank Andreas de Groot writes:
QuoteAnd it is just your own conjecture to assume that .net will have exclusive practically rewrote the thing). It came with a price: these features were exclusive to VB.NET, no future Win32 development for VB, and a greater learning curve. Needless to say, VB(Visual Basic) developers were not exactly...thrilled with the consequences. -Michael Bennett |
Mike Swaim
Delphi Developer |
2003-12-02 12:36:42 AM
Re:My view on the "Delphi is dead" issue
Frank Andreas de Groot writes:
Quote"Will DeWitt Jr." <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes one of those bugs. Raymond Chen occasionally rants about that in his blog, The Old New Thing. (blogs.gotdotnet.com/raymondc/) |
Frank Andreas de Groot
Delphi Developer |
2003-12-02 01:44:36 AM
Re:My view on the "Delphi is dead" issue
"Michael Bennett" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>wrote
QuoteYeah that is true. However, they took a similar risk with VB, adding in some "Put something cool into it" |