Board index » delphi » Re: Open Source vs. Commercial

Re: Open Source vs. Commercial


2005-06-05 07:19:27 AM
delphi128
Ingvar Nilsen writes:
Quote

I think steam engines are used, or are becoming more common in nuclear
power plants
There has never been any other form of nuclear plant - the nuclear reaction
produces heat, heats water, turns turbines, generates electricity. The only
difference is the fuel.
--
Wayne Niddery - Logic Fundamentals, Inc. (www.logicfundamentals.com)
RADBooks: www.logicfundamentals.com/RADBooks.html
"The purpose of morality is to teach you, not to suffer and die, but to
enjoy yourself and live." - Ayn Rand
 
 

Re: Open Source vs. Commercial

On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:39:44 +0200, "Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]"
<XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
At 21:27:08, 04.06.2005, Captain Jake writes:

>#2 is very easy to illustrate. Just compare the amount of innovation in
>newsreaders or internet browsers where they were commercial to now when
>they are essentially freeware.

NCSA Mosaic was essentially freeware as well. It was not OSS, but the
Unix sources were freely available.

Like I said, there is not much innovation in newsreaders anymore because
the market is vanishing. Many people prefer other means of communication.
This is one reason; another is that due to the volume of spam and
proliferation of binary newsgroups, the number of free public Usenet feeds
has dropped considerably since late 1990s, and those that remain typically
offer only a subset of all groups. Very unfortunate, since it is in many
ways a more convenient medium than web-based forums, which seem to be
what's replacing Usenet.
That is to say, increased commercialization of a medium that was once
"free" is making is less, not more viable. Meanwhile, phpBB is free, and
it's flourishing.
.marek
--
No ads, no nags freeware: www.tranglos.com
(KeyNote, PhoneDeck, KookieJar, Oubliette, URLInject)
 

Re: Open Source vs. Commercial

At 03:10:06, 05.06.2005, marek jedlinski writes:
Quote
>Like I said, there is not much innovation in newsreaders anymore
>because the market is vanishing. Many people prefer other means of
>communication.

This is one reason; another is that due to the volume of spam and
proliferation of binary newsgroups, the number of free public Usenet
feeds has dropped considerably since late 1990s, and those that remain
typically offer only a subset of all groups.
True.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"He is one of those people who would be enormously improved by death."
- H. H. Munro (Saki) (1870-1916)
 

Re: Open Source vs. Commercial

Abdullah Kauchali writes:
Quote
Open source is harmful to the society from an economic
point of view whenever it is "released" freely - especially if the
project contends with an existing commercial one.
Nothing done freely and which violates no ones rights is "harmful".
I've heard a lot of things said about OSS, but that it is "harmful to
society" is a new one on me. ;-)
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Open Source vs. Commercial

Captain Jake writes:
Quote

I dare say that we already are seeing the effects, in the decrease in
third-party library vendors, and the resulting loss in innovation.
You appear not to be considering the benefits to people who /use/ JEDI
for no cost. Those are great and many.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Open Source vs. Commercial

Captain Jake writes:
Quote
It results in 1) an inefficient allocation of resources 2) less
innovation in the long run
I don't agree with either of these.
1) Resources are allocated as a result of people making free choices
isn't inherently inefficient. The price of $0 is still a price. I
myself consider OSS an exceedingly efficient use of resources --
especially since I can use those allocated resources at a very low
price. From the perspective of a user, free is as efficient as it gets.
Your only other recourse here is to argue that some entity should force
OSS programmers to charge for their work. Or, in other words, the
market has set the price for Linux, and it is set at $0.
2) Innovation is a totally subjective measure, and thus you can't
assert that there is less or more of it because of OSS.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Open Source vs. Commercial

Captain Jake writes:
Quote
Innovation stopped dead.
See -- that is totally subjective. I don't agree that it is true.
Quote
Want more examples? Look
at the lack of innovation in Linux compared to Windows.
I think that Linux is way more "innovative".
That is all subjective.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Open Source vs. Commercial

Wayne Niddery [TeamB] writes:
Quote
The worse that you can claim is that *specific products* may no
longer be able to demand a price due to competition from OSS,
And that, of course, is profoundly good for society.
I think the point that Jake is missing here is that OSS is freely given
away, and is not forced to be "free" like "free health care".
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Open Source vs. Commercial

Captain Jake writes:
Quote
Unfortunately, when I have come up with one, I have written it into my
newsreader. So my list of newsreader innovations that are not already
in my newsreader is insignificant. This leaves me at a rhetorical
disadvantage in this discussion
You can innovate all you like, but if no one is willing to pay for it,
what is the benefit? I might come up with an enormously innovative
buggy whip, but of course, no one will pay for it, so in the end, my
innovation is wasted. The fact that Newsreaders are basically free
should be a signal to you to spend your time innovating elsewhere.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Open Source vs. Commercial

Captain Jake writes:
Quote
He couldn't envision the possibility that innovation would find
a solution to that problem.
Sadly, this is an excessively common way of thinking even today.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Open Source vs. Commercial

Wayne Niddery [TeamB] writes:
Quote
The are not beasts of burden you can
allocate to various jobs "needed by society" they are human beings
with free will and the right to use that free will even if it is
contrary to your perception of a "proper" allocation of resources.
And of course, one of the base tenets of free-market economics is that
/no one/ knows the best allocation of resources except each individual
making choices for themselves.
The notion that anyone -- even Jake -- knows "the best allocation of
resources" is, of course, wrong.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Open Source vs. Commercial

At 10:33:18, 05.06.2005, Nick Hodges [TeamB] writes:
Quote
Captain Jake writes:

>
>I dare say that we already are seeing the effects, in the decrease in
>third-party library vendors, and the resulting loss in innovation.

You appear not to be considering the benefits to people who use JEDI
for no cost.
Including Borland. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"Humor is a {*word*221} sword - it allows you to make a point without drawing
{*word*76}." -- Mary Hirsch
 

Re: Open Source vs. Commercial

Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] writes:
Quote
Including Borland. <g>
Indeed -- Borland has benefited nicely from JEDI, and by extension, its
customers.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick
 

Re: Open Source vs. Commercial

Nick Hodges [TeamB] writes:
Quote
Indeed -- Borland has benefited nicely from JEDI, and by extension, its
customers.
Might be a good idea for Borland to start paying the JEDI contributors
then? Or do they already?
 

Re: Open Source vs. Commercial

Abdullah Kauchali writes:
Quote
Might be a good idea for Borland to start paying the JEDI contributors
then? Or do they already?
I don't think so -- but if they will do it for free.....<g>
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick