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Re: MySQL or Firebird


2003-07-09 01:56:32 PM
delphi232
Hi,
Quote
We are going to be doing a LAN/WAN windows application project ( 20 +
users 120 + tables 500 transactions per day ) and are looking at either
MySQL or Firebird ( we are on a budget and resell our app to end users ).
Does anyody have any comments or suggestions ???
What are your requirements? (besides users etc)
500 transactions ->? that is not a whole lot. Do you hardly ever write
data?
How about the need for stored procedures and triggers? Do you use
an app-server or use multiple languages accessing the same database?
Stored procedures could help you a lot there.
Any need for referential constraints etc? MySQL only has them on
certain table types, Firebird has them all the way. Etc...
In my opinion: Firebird.
--
With regards,
Martijn Tonies
Database Workbench - the developer tool for InterBase & Firebird
Upscene Productions
www.upscene.com
 
 

Re: MySQL or Firebird

In article <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, Huhtaman says...
Hi,
Quote
We are going to be doing a LAN/WAN windows application project ( 20 +
users 120 + tables 500 transactions per day ) and are looking at either
MySQL or Firebird ( we are on a budget and resell our app to end users ).
Does anyody have any comments or suggestions ???
As you are on a budget MySQL's ~$450 per server deployment licence might
be an issue (Firebird has no licensing costs). MySQL as lacks a number
of features that Firebird has, and is only just starting to catch up.
Phil
 

Re: MySQL or Firebird

"Craig Stuntz [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Hal Davison writes:

>With MySQL when you deploy the application, get out the BIG checkbook.

That's silly. Any money is of course more than free, but MySQL is one
of the cheapest DB servers in its class.
I agree. Of all the areas that IB/FB blows away MySQL, I would say cost is one
of the least important ones.
Dan
 

Re: MySQL or Firebird

Hal Davison writes:
Quote
In its CLASS PostgreSQL is the best bargin. Besides, it is distributed
with a BSD license and not the GNU of MySQL.
MySQL is dual licensed and cheap. As I mentioned before, a few
hundred dollars is more than free, but still very cheap next to most of
the DB servers on the market. Calling it expensive is very misleading.
It's *highly* misleading to refer to MySQL's commercial license, which
costs money but is not GPL and then refer to the GPL in the next
sentence. You make it sound as if MySQL charges money for the GPL
licensed version, which simply isn't true.
I'm not a fan of MySQL personally, but I have a low tolerance for
misleading newsgroup users.
An honest comparison of MySQL and PostgreSQL in this newsgroup should
probably mention that the latter is not intended for use on Windows
servers, although you can use Windows clients with PostgreSQL.
Quote
I suppose when one is used to M$, DB2 and Oracle, $495 per seat would
be cheap.
Exactly my point -- calling it expsensive is absurd.
-Craig
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] . Vertex Systems Corp. . Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : delphi.weblogs.com
Please read and follow Borland's rules for the user of their
news server: info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
 

Re: MySQL or Firebird

"Craig Stuntz [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
hundred dollars is more than free, but still very cheap next to most of
the DB servers on the market. Calling it expensive is very misleading.
Absolutely - as the DB server market goes, MySQL is very inexpensive.
Quote
>I suppose when one is used to M$, DB2 and Oracle, $495 per seat would
Exactly my point -- calling it expsensive is absurd.
Even moreso since MySQL is <= $495 per *server*, not per user.
--
[ Kyle Cordes * XXXX@XXXXX.COM * kylecordes.com ]
[ Consulting and Software development tips and techniques ]
[ for Java, EJB, Delphi, the BDE Alternatives Guide, & more ]
 

Re: MySQL or Firebird

Guys:
Thanks for all of your input. Here is some more information on what we
are trying to accomplish.
We are writing an accounting, parts, and service system - so we will
have lots of writes and lots of selects. Most customers will be on a LAN - a
few will be on a WAN. We are likely to use KBMem's multi-tier architecture -
but that has not been finalized. If we use MySQL it would be with their
InnoDB Table structure for the transactions.
Our number 1 priority is stability of the database
A) it must be very reliable and have good error recovery
B) It must have good documentation and availability of resource material
so we can understand how to work with the database
C) It must have strong community support to ensure the survival and
evolution of the database product
D) It must be easy to install and have close to 0 administration
E) It must be able to scale up to handle larger volumes
F) It must be reasonably fast
G) It must be reasonably priced so we can stay competitive with our
costs
H) It should have industry standard tools ( ie stored procs, etc ).
We are leaning towards MySQL because of the strong community support,
heavy product usage, and abundance of documentation. The primary downfall we
see with MySQL are the lack of stored procedures, triggers, and views.
However, they will be added early next year with the release of version 5.
Any other comments ??? Thank you.
Neil Huhta
 

Re: MySQL or Firebird

IMHO, FireBird
With MySQL when you deploy the application, get out the BIG checkbook.
If not FireBird, then try PostgreSQL.
Hal Davison
"Martijn Tonies" <m.tonies@upscene!nospam!.com>writes
Quote
Hi,

>We are going to be doing a LAN/WAN windows application project ( 20
+
>users 120 + tables 500 transactions per day ) and are looking at either
>MySQL or Firebird ( we are on a budget and resell our app to end
users ).
>Does anyody have any comments or suggestions ???

What are your requirements? (besides users etc)

500 transactions ->? that is not a whole lot. Do you hardly ever write
data?

How about the need for stored procedures and triggers? Do you use
an app-server or use multiple languages accessing the same database?
Stored procedures could help you a lot there.

Any need for referential constraints etc? MySQL only has them on
certain table types, Firebird has them all the way. Etc...

In my opinion: Firebird.


--

With regards,

Martijn Tonies
Database Workbench - the developer tool for InterBase & Firebird
Upscene Productions
www.upscene.com


 

Re: MySQL or Firebird

My appoligies(sp) if I appeared to be misleading on these issues.
You are correct that MySQL is GPL'd and there is NO CHARGE for the GPL'd use
of MySQL as long as you dont't charge a fee for the resultant distribution
of the work that includes MySQL.
However, it is MY understanding if one were to use MySQL in development then
sell the application that a licensing fee would be payable to MySQL at the
rate of $485(USD) per seat.
If I am in error, I humbly stand corrected.
Hal Davison
"Craig Stuntz [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Hal Davison writes:

>In its CLASS PostgreSQL is the best bargin. Besides, it is distributed
>with a BSD license and not the GNU of MySQL.

MySQL is dual licensed and cheap. As I mentioned before, a few
hundred dollars is more than free, but still very cheap next to most of
the DB servers on the market. Calling it expensive is very misleading.
It's *highly* misleading to refer to MySQL's commercial license, which
costs money but is not GPL and then refer to the GPL in the next
sentence. You make it sound as if MySQL charges money for the GPL
licensed version, which simply isn't true.

I'm not a fan of MySQL personally, but I have a low tolerance for
misleading newsgroup users.

An honest comparison of MySQL and PostgreSQL in this newsgroup should
probably mention that the latter is not intended for use on Windows
servers, although you can use Windows clients with PostgreSQL.

>I suppose when one is used to M$, DB2 and Oracle, $495 per seat would
>be cheap.

Exactly my point -- calling it expsensive is absurd.

-Craig

--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] . Vertex Systems Corp. . Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : delphi.weblogs.com
Please read and follow Borland's rules for the user of their
news server: info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
 

Re: MySQL or Firebird

I've been using MySQL for about 8 months now. We use MS SQL and MySQL. My
experience lies down on personal experience and not on our customer side( we
haven't installed our software yet under mySQL since it is been under
testing). I will tell you what I know but please take it as a start point
and not as from someone who really know everything about MySQL ok? ;-)
software type: MIS c/s. Current users locally: 4. Database size: ~2.5 GB.
The MIS system has transactions but haven't been tested under MySQL yet.
Difficulty converting from MS SQL: Low.
Server PC: intel 1Ghz, 512Mb ram, Windows 2000 server.
A) Seems that it is reliable. It hasn't crashed yet. I saw that the check
table function couldn't check the tables correctly (once)... a couple a
months ago. I had to reinstall all the tables and data! But for the rest of
the time the check table worked.
B) The manual is very good. Online manual is very good too as it is updated
all the time.
C) Very strong community. Try the www.MySQL.org and check the newsgroups.
D) The windows GUI administration is very easy. The setup is very easy too.
I haven't played much with administration on Linux though.
E) Newsgroups talk for volumes up to 50,000,000 records on a table..... the
database survived. But I don't have a personal experience on that. I think
that an ~2.5 GB database is not very big to have a strong opinion on that
matter.
F) Using the same code as we used on MS SQL to access data
(retrieve/update/insert etc), with a very limited modifications, it was a
little little little bit faster that MS SQL. But under Linux it is much
faster. Using 3 whiles in a procedure to access data and 2 external whiles
called by these 3 (all using different datasources) it took almost half the
time to access and update data (win version VS linux version). The max time
under windows was ~5 minutes.
G) can not tell.
H) I think that the stored procedures, triggers and views will be available
under MySQL version 5 (as you mention). it is under development now. But
please check frequently at their site to be sure.
I hope that I gave you a start point.
George Christoforakis.
"Huhtaman" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote

Guys:

Thanks for all of your input. Here is some more information on what we
are trying to accomplish.

We are writing an accounting, parts, and service system - so we will
have lots of writes and lots of selects. Most customers will be on a LAN -
a
few will be on a WAN. We are likely to use KBMem's multi-tier
architecture -
but that has not been finalized. If we use MySQL it would be with their
InnoDB Table structure for the transactions.

Our number 1 priority is stability of the database
A) it must be very reliable and have good error recovery
B) It must have good documentation and availability of resource
material
so we can understand how to work with the database
C) It must have strong community support to ensure the survival and
evolution of the database product
D) It must be easy to install and have close to 0 administration
E) It must be able to scale up to handle larger volumes
F) It must be reasonably fast
G) It must be reasonably priced so we can stay competitive with our
costs
H) It should have industry standard tools ( ie stored procs, etc ).



We are leaning towards MySQL because of the strong community support,
heavy product usage, and abundance of documentation. The primary downfall
we
see with MySQL are the lack of stored procedures, triggers, and views.
However, they will be added early next year with the release of version 5.

Any other comments ??? Thank you.


Neil Huhta



 

Re: MySQL or Firebird

Hi,
Quote
Thanks for all of your input. Here is some more information on what we
are trying to accomplish.

We are writing an accounting, parts, and service system - so we will
have lots of writes and lots of selects. Most customers will be on a LAN - a
few will be on a WAN. We are likely to use KBMem's multi-tier architecture -
but that has not been finalized. If we use MySQL it would be with their
InnoDB Table structure for the transactions.

Our number 1 priority is stability of the database
A) it must be very reliable and have good error recovery
Firebird is very reliable.
Quote
B) It must have good documentation and availability of resource material
so we can understand how to work with the database
www.ibphoenix.com has en enormous amount of resources for Firebird
and InterBase.
Quote
C) It must have strong community support to ensure the survival and
evolution of the database product
Again, Firebird is strong at this.
Quote
D) It must be easy to install and have close to 0 administration
Firebird.
Quote
E) It must be able to scale up to handle larger volumes
Firebird.
Quote
F) It must be reasonably fast
Firebird.
Quote
G) It must be reasonably priced so we can stay competitive with our
costs
Firebird = free.
Quote
H) It should have industry standard tools ( ie stored procs, etc ).
Firebird! :-)
--
With regards,
Martijn Tonies
Database Workbench - the developer tool for InterBase & Firebird
Upscene Productions
www.upscene.com
 

Re: MySQL or Firebird

In article <3f0d59cd$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, Hal Davison says...
Hi,
Quote
Per SEAT?

The current MySQL licensing document on their site indicates per server.
It is per server with unlimited client connections.
Phil
 

Re: MySQL or Firebird

In article <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, Cristian Nicola says...
Hi,
Quote
The pages on mysql.com are confusing they say you do not pay for connections
to server, but actually you have to pay per redistribution of the client
eg:
you have a server and 10 client machines. they can open 1000 connections to
the server, but you would need to buy 1 server licenc and 10 clients
licences.
There are no client licences for MySQL, only server licences. You can
distribute the client libraries for 'free' as long as it is used with a
licensed server.
Phil
 

Re: MySQL or Firebird

Could you please care to explain where from you got that idea?
My understanding is that client is under GPL and that there is a client
licence. With other words you have to also licence the clients..
Did you at least looked at the sites I have pointed?
Cristian
"Phil Shrimpton" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
In article <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, Cristian Nicola says...

Hi,

>The pages on mysql.com are confusing they say you do not pay for
connections
>to server, but actually you have to pay per redistribution of the client
>eg:
>you have a server and 10 client machines. they can open 1000
connections to
>the server, but you would need to buy 1 server licenc and 10 clients
>licences.

There are no client licences for MySQL, only server licences. You can
distribute the client libraries for 'free' as long as it is used with a
licensed server.

Phil
 

Re: MySQL or Firebird

For what it is worth, I read the link and Phil seems to be correct. In a
commercial setting only one server license is needed.
This not to say that the MySQL people may change their policy on client
licensing in the near future.
Hal Davison
Davison Consulting
"Phil Shrimpton" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
In article <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, Cristian Nicola says...

Hi,

>>There are no client licences for MySQL, only server licences. You can
>>distribute the client libraries for 'free' as long as it is used with
a
>>licensed server.
>
>Could you please care to explain where from you got that idea?

From the website and asking a sales rep at a recent conference.

>My understanding is that client is under GPL and that there is a client
>licence. With other words you have to also licence the clients..

There is no client licence, there is just a single licence that covers a
single server with unlimited client connections.

As long as the 'server' is licensed, you can distribute as many
'clients' as you like (for that server).

Phil
 

Re: MySQL or Firebird

My understanding is that if you use *their* client files (JDBC, ODBC) in a
non-GPL app, then you need client licenses as well. However, there are 3rd
party mySQL drivers that are either free or have no run-time licensing.
Dan
"Hal Davison" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
For what it is worth, I read the link and Phil seems to be correct. In a
commercial setting only one server license is needed.

This not to say that the MySQL people may change their policy on client
licensing in the near future.

Hal Davison
Davison Consulting

"Phil Shrimpton" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
news:XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
>In article <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, Cristian Nicola says...
>
>Hi,
>
>>>There are no client licences for MySQL, only server licences. You
can
>>>distribute the client libraries for 'free' as long as it is used
with
a
>>>licensed server.
>>
>>Could you please care to explain where from you got that idea?
>
>From the website and asking a sales rep at a recent conference.
>
>>My understanding is that client is under GPL and that there is a
client
>>licence. With other words you have to also licence the clients..
>
>There is no client licence, there is just a single licence that covers a
>single server with unlimited client connections.
>
>As long as the 'server' is licensed, you can distribute as many
>'clients' as you like (for that server).
>
>Phil