Board index » delphi » Re: BDS 2007 ETA?

Re: BDS 2007 ETA?


2007-01-06 05:49:38 AM
delphi250
Wayne Niddery [TeamB] writes:
Quote
SA is broken? How? It does exactly what it is advertised to do and
its intent from the start is that it be annually renewed. The only
thing "broken" is the idea that one should buy it once and then feel
ripped off because the next release didn't come through within 365
days.
Short of it being strongly stated - customers buying SA from any
company expect by norm to receive at least one release during that
time. Dismissing this normal expectation is only asking for
disappointed customers.
--
Chad Z. Hower
Microsoft Regional Director
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
www.KudzuWorld.com/
Need a professional technical speaker at your event?
www.woo-hoo.net
 
 

Re: BDS 2007 ETA?

David Erbas-White writes:
Quote
My humble suggestion: 1 year of SA buys you 'x' incident reports and
the next version. Have a reduced SA renewal rate for 'x' incident
reports if the year goes by and a new version hasn't been released.
And if CG really wants good will - Id suggest they offer Highlander to
all SA customers that did not receive anything. Lets face it, Delphi 8
and 2005 were bad. 2006 is getting mixed reviews, but even those who
say it is stable most dont equate it to the level of "Expected" or
"normal" for Delphi. So purchasing SA on top of this, and receiving
nothing yet having to renew again - lets just say I dont think its
making for good customer experiences.
--
Chad Z. Hower
Microsoft Regional Director
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
www.KudzuWorld.com/
Need a professional technical speaker at your event?
www.woo-hoo.net
 

Re: BDS 2007 ETA?

Quote
Lets face it, Delphi 8
and 2005 were bad.
Agree.
Quote
2006 is getting mixed reviews, but even those who
say it is stable most dont equate it to the level of "Expected" or
"normal" for Delphi.
Disagree..I think it is better(after updates) than D7(after updates) & previous
releases.
Quote
So purchasing SA on top of this, and receiving
nothing yet having to renew again - lets just say I dont think its
making for good customer experiences.
Agree - I bought D2006A + SA(for the first time) at DevCon and received no
release during the SA period. So of course I did not renew the SA when it ran
out; just too risky not having yet seen the quality of CodeGear's first
officially released product.
JoeH
 

Re: BDS 2007 ETA?

Lars Fosdal writes:
Quote
I for one would definitively be thrilled to attach a shiny new SA to
my BDS 2006 Enterprise.
Send me an email - and let me know what region you are in.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: BDS 2007 ETA?

Quote
My humble suggestion: 1 year of SA buys you 'x' incident reports and the
next version. Have a reduced SA renewal rate for 'x' incident reports if
the year goes by and a new version hasn't been released.
Sounds like the Borland Connections program circa 1995.
 

Re: BDS 2007 ETA?

Joe Hendricks writes:
Quote
>2006 is getting mixed reviews, but even those who
>say it is stable most dont equate it to the level of "Expected" or
>"normal" for Delphi.

Disagree..I think it is better(after updates) than D7(after updates) &
previous releases.
I agree with Joe. People seem to forget the number of bugs (in the IDE
as well as the RTL and VCL) that actually have been fixed since D7, that
the start up time of D2006 is actually *faster* if you have a decent
number of 3rd party packages installed, that the code editor including
code completion etc is much better, that the compiler as well as the RTL
have been optimized wrt speed, memory usage and foot print of your
executables, etc.
--
Henrick Hellström
www.streamsec.com
 

Re: BDS 2007 ETA?

Joe Hendricks writes:
Quote
>2006 is getting mixed reviews, but even those who
>say it is stable most dont equate it to the level of "Expected" or
>"normal" for Delphi.

Disagree..I think it is better(after updates) than D7(after updates)
& previous releases.
You disagree on mixed reviews? Thats why I said mixed - many are saying
its fine, but there are still a lot of people who have significant
problems with it. Given the mixed reviews - I doubt that the average of
them would allow it to hold up to D7. The bit that I have used 2006 has
been ok, but I still wouldnt put it up there with Delphi 7 for stability. D7
rarely crashed on me and I didnt "worry" when going into it.
I fully believe it works fine for you - but there are still a fairly
large portion of the users, if I had to guess say 20% or so that have
significant problems with 2006. The numbers for Delphi 7 were no where near
that.
Quote
>So purchasing SA on top of this, and receiving
>nothing yet having to renew again - lets just say I dont think its
>making for good customer experiences.

Agree - I bought D2006A + SA(for the first time) at DevCon and
received no release during the SA period. So of course I did not
renew the SA when it ran out; just too risky not having yet seen the
quality of CodeGear's first officially released product.
Which is why I think they shoudl be on a mending campaign and outreach
instead of asking for more trust and more money....
--
Chad Z. Hower
Microsoft Regional Director
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
www.KudzuWorld.com/
Need a professional technical speaker at your event?
www.woo-hoo.net
 

Re: BDS 2007 ETA?

Chad Z. Hower writes:
Quote
Joe Hendricks writes:
>>2006 is getting mixed reviews, but even those who
>>say it is stable most dont equate it to the level of "Expected" or
>>"normal" for Delphi.
>
>Disagree..I think it is better(after updates) than D7(after updates)
>& previous releases.

You disagree on mixed reviews? Thats why I said mixed - many are saying
its fine, but there are still a lot of people who have significant
problems with it. Given the mixed reviews - I doubt that the average of
them would allow it to hold up to D7. The bit that I have used 2006 has
been ok, but I still wouldnt put it up there with Delphi 7 for stability. D7
rarely crashed on me and I didnt "worry" when going into it.
Chad, the point one might make is that some customers won't be satisfied
no matter what CodeGear does. If D2006 really is in relevant aspects
more stable than D7, but some people perceive the opposite, I honestly
think it might just be stupid of CodeGear to give Highlander away for
free to those customers.
IME D2006 is significantly *more* stable than Delphi 7 given the following:
a) both are used on PCs with at least twice the recommended amount of
RAM and free HD space
b) both are used with at least the full JEDI JCL + JVCL and some
10-20 other 3rd party component packages and plugins that are updated
every once in a while
c) both are used primarily for Win32 and without Together modelsupport
d) both are used in the way they were respectively primarily designed
to be used (i.e. D2006 in docked mode with the form designed on a tab
instead of floating).
Now, I might be wrong, but I actually haven't seen a single person who
met all four conditions and used a fully hotfixed D2006 on a regular
basis complain about its stability. Most *general* complaints (that
don't focus on specific bugs and issues) I recall fall into the
following categories:
1) D2006 system requirements vs. Delphi 7 system requirements
2) D2006 vs. Delphi 7 w/o 3rd party components
3) Delphi 8 and/or D2005 were bad and the user became significantly less
tolerant when evaluating D2006 compared to when [s]he evaluated Delphi 7 some
years ago
4) D2006 becomes less stable if, for some reason, you want to make it
more like Delphi 7 (floating form designer, component tabs, non docked desktop
etc)
5) Some features that have been added since D7, such as together
modelsupport, aren't 100% bug free.
The obvious point is that no matter what CodeGear does, if D2006 doesn't
make a customer happy for any of the above reasons, Highlander will most
likely not make them any happier. It will have similar system
requirements, it will contain about the same or higher number of
packages, it will probably not be bug free (since Borland/CodeGear have
never claimed their products are bug free), and it will not be based on
the Delphi 7 IDE but the same IDE 2006 is based on. I have faith in CodeGear
to feel justified to predict that the people that are happy with D2006
will be even happier with Highlander, but they won't satisfy customers
who basically complain about fundamentals such as requirements or the
architecture of the IDE.
--
Henrick Hellström
www.streamsec.com
 

Re: BDS 2007 ETA?

"Henrick Hellström [StreamSec]" writes:
Quote
Chad, the point one might make is that some customers won't be
satisfied no matter what CodeGear does. If D2006 really is in
relevant aspects more stable than D7, but some people perceive the
Noone will ever make everyone happy - but I think you might have missed
a point. Im not suggesting that Highlander is free to everyone, but
instead for those who purchase SA in addition to D2006, and under SA
"recieved nothing".
--
Chad Z. Hower
Microsoft Regional Director
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
www.KudzuWorld.com/
Need a professional technical speaker at your event?
www.woo-hoo.net
 

Re: BDS 2007 ETA?

Henrick Hellström [StreamSec] writes:
Quote

Now, I might be wrong, but I actually haven't seen a single person who
met all four conditions and used a fully hotfixed D2006 on a regular
basis complain about its stability. Most *general* complaints (that
don't focus on specific bugs and issues) I recall fall into the
following categories:

1) D2006 system requirements vs. Delphi 7 system requirements
2) D2006 vs. Delphi 7 w/o 3rd party components
3) Delphi 8 and/or D2005 were bad and the user became significantly less
tolerant when evaluating D2006 compared to when [s]he evaluated Delphi 7 some
years ago
4) D2006 becomes less stable if, for some reason, you want to make it
more like Delphi 7 (floating form designer, component tabs, non docked desktop
etc)
5) Some features that have been added since D7, such as together
modelsupport, aren't 100% bug free.

You apparently missed the number one complaint: how badly the BROKE the
help and documentation in BDS2006. That, more than anything, is (IMHO)
the primary reason for the perception of problems with BDS2006. This
becomes particularly a problem when one looks at the months prior to the
release of it, when there were many statements (and appeared to be real
work being done) to make the documentation better.
End-users look at this aspect of it and have to wonder -- if they
couldn't even get this right, what hidden problems are underneath the
hood waiting to bite them in the butt...
David Erbas-White
 

Re: BDS 2007 ETA?

Henrick Hellström [StreamSec] writes:
Quote
I agree with Joe. People seem to forget the number of bugs (in the IDE
as well as the RTL and VCL) that actually have been fixed since D7, that
the start up time of D2006 is actually *faster* if you have a decent
number of 3rd party packages installed, that the code editor including
code completion etc is much better, that the compiler as well as the RTL
have been optimized wrt speed, memory usage and foot print of your
executables, etc.
But there are some new show-stoppers as well. Like the inability to
debug COM dll's that are stored in a path that contains blanks. Like
the fact that the remote de{*word*81} will work on some systems and
won't on others. Ever since the release of BDS2006 my code is
cluttered with OutputDebugString() which I feel is a step
backwards.
--
Arthur Hoornweg
(In order to reply per e-mail, please just remove the ".net"
from my e-mail address. Leave the rest of the address intact
including the "antispam" part. I had to take this measure to
counteract unsollicited mail.)
 

Re: BDS 2007 ETA?

I just purchased BDS pro. Can i still get SA for it?
Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
Roddy Pratt writes:

>Nick - the "Stuck record" question: Has the $1000 minimum on SA
>purchases been removed yet?

I believe so, but I am not sure. I /believe/ that is a regional thing.
What region are you in? Oh, I see you are in the UK....

>The stated reason for this minimum was the cost of the included
>"incident support". But now, incident support (for Turbo versions) is
>being sold separately for GBP 60!

We are working hard to revamp all of this and make it a win/win for
everyone. But -- and I know people hate hearing this -- it is really
hard given the new revenue recognition rules in the US. License
revenue and subscription revenue are /very/ different and transitioning
from one to the other is fraught with peril.



 

Re: BDS 2007 ETA?

Mike Margerum writes:
Quote
I just purchased BDS pro. Can i still get SA for it?
Contact your regional sales person. If you can not do that, send me an
email.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: BDS 2007 ETA?

Roddy Pratt writes:
<snip>
Quote
However, SOX makes me very glad to be based in the UK!
SOX doesn't care where you're based.
--
 

Re: BDS 2007 ETA?

Marco Caspers writes:
Quote

SOX doesn't care where you're based.
??? AFAIK, SOX only affects publicly traded companies incorporated in
the US. (.. and wholly owned subsidiaries, obviously...)
- Roddy