Board index » delphi » Re: Nick on channel9 - the JEDI case

Re: Nick on channel9 - the JEDI case


2007-08-20 03:47:57 PM
delphi184
Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
Florent Ouchet writes:

>Thanks for the words about Jedi projects here!

I plug Jedi every chance I get. ;-)

Way to go, Nick.
Perhaps you will get a chance to plug it in Delphi? ;-)
In fact, the matter is much more serious, imho. We had not so much time ago a thread
about including 3rd party components in Delphi (then we spoke mainly about DevExpress
suite). But on that thread we didn't touch some aspects of the OOTB 3rd party
components, that is why I humbly dare to present some points ("new and used") on the
theme.
These OOTB components must serve the interests of /both/ markets: component vendors
and simple developers. Imho, a component vendor should steer on his added value not
in doing (again and again) some 'auxiliary' controls like enhanced embeddable
editors, splitters with snap capabilities, property inspectors aso. - even if, at a
quick glance it is (yet another) way to charge the users. But, imho, isn't at all
natural that DevEx has its editors (33 components!) same number for DB layer +
Express Utilities (other stuff not directly related with QuantumGrid, let's say). The
same stands for FastReport suite. The same secondary stuff is to be found (in another
form) in JEDI. And the list can continue (TMS, Woll2Woll etc.). Imho, it will be a
great addition to have a component set which can be easily used in data entry and
building UIs at _today_ _standards_ /not/ at today leading-edge tech. The 'standard'
part is the responsibility of Delphi as a base to begin with while the 'leading-edge'
is the responsibility of each 3rd party dedicated UI component vendor. As a proposal,
due it is free nature and de facto standard, (a subset of) JEDI (both JCL & JVCL) is a
candidate on this area. Now I am thinking what it would be for report component
vendors if TChart wouldn't be integrated in Delphi.
my 2c,
--
m. th.
 
 

Re: Nick on channel9 - the JEDI case

m. Th. schrieb:
Quote
In fact, the matter is much more serious, imho. We had not so much time
ago a thread about including 3rd party components in Delphi (then we
spoke mainly about DevExpress suite). But on that thread we didn't touch
some aspects of the OOTB 3rd party components, that is why I humbly dare
to present some points ("new and used") on the theme.
Only a relatively small number of components of the JVCL are fit for
addition to Delphi. Many components are not much in use (like the
Windows dialog components) or relics which we will phase out.
Of course we have some flagship components, but only adding those to the
VCL will cause installation problems for the JVCL. We happily live with
the releases for the Companion CD.
Maybe a special Welcome page in the IDE with links to the most popular
free and commercial component packages is most useful.
 

Re: Nick on channel9 - the JEDI case

m. Th. a écrit :
Quote
In fact, the matter is much more serious, imho. We had not so much time
ago a thread about including 3rd party components in Delphi (then we
spoke mainly about DevExpress suite). But on that thread we didn't touch
some aspects of the OOTB 3rd party components, that is why I humbly dare
to present some points ("new and used") on the theme.
Delphi is already shipped with many third-party
libraries/components/helpers/binaries on the partner dvd. I don't think
there is a need for a deeper integration that could introduce
nightmares. Users would report bug in QC regarding these thirdparty
components, which is not the best place for thirdparty libraries.
I really prefer a standalone project that releases from time to time a
version dedicated to a new version of Delphi.
The Jedi libraries managed to be on partner dvd of latest versions of
Delphi/C++Builder (thanks to CodeGear for that), but main trunk of
development is still at sourceforge and not in bds/source/win32/j(v)cl.
This separation makes library upgrades easier.
- Florent
 

Re: Nick on channel9 - the JEDI case

Robert Marquardt writes:
Quote
m. Th. schrieb:


Only a relatively small number of components of the JVCL are fit for
addition to Delphi. Many components are not much in use (like the
Windows dialog components) or relics which we will phase out.

Yes, of course.
Quote
Of course we have some flagship components, but only adding those to the
VCL will cause installation problems for the JVCL.
Why do you think so? Indy lives pretty well with a similar model, imho.
Quote
We happily live with the releases for the Companion CD.

Maybe a special Welcome page in the IDE with links to the most popular
free and commercial component packages is most useful.
Yes, I see how do you think, but the main point is/was to have J(V)CL background for
2ndary market (component vendors especially). Nowadays all (AFAIK) report engines
'rely' on TChart (3rd party, closed-source, commercial component) for their chart
representations because is integrated in Delphi. Of course, I fully agree that JEDI
deserves a link/place on the companion CD/DVD but in this case no-one from the
component vendors will use (taking a very simple example), the TjvNetscapeSplitter
for their let's say, property editors/forms. They have to (re)build them from scratch
thus making their effort much bigger. And here are a plethora of examples (see my 1st
post). OTOH, as we all know (re)installing all the packages from the nowadays
libraries (which are quite big) is one of the main factors (if not *the* factor) of
keeping the guys away from upgrading to a new Delphi version. But if a standard,
open-source version of JEDI comes bundled with Delphi, the things change dramatically.
Imho, the main point is that you (and Florin, Oliver, Andreas aso.) are _willing_ to
do it, in cooperation with CodeGear. Of course, as any man, everyone has his doubts
but if you aren't keen to do it, let's say starting from now in incremental steps
speaking continuously with Nick (and/or with someone else from CG), it will not work.
And it will be too bad, because, imho, JEDI express the community's voice which can
help CG in order to concentrate on things that only they can do (language
improvements, optimizations aso.)
--
m. th.
 

Re: Nick on channel9 - the JEDI case

m. Th. a écrit :
Quote
Imho, the main point is that you (and Florin, Oliver, Andreas aso.) are
_willing_ to do it, in cooperation with CodeGear.
You may not forget most of us take care of these libraries in their free
time. These opensource projects need a lot of /active/ members to
maintain x hundred thousands lines of code. Given the lack of active
developers contributing to the project, we can hardly find time to make
this thing happen.
- Florent