Board index » delphi » Re: Peace between Native and .NET freaks (a proposal)
Steve Garland
Delphi Developer |
Steve Garland
Delphi Developer |
Re: Peace between Native and .NET freaks (a proposal)2005-01-20 01:05:45 AM delphi48 <<www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2003/01/13/intromcpp.html Why can not borland do something like this with Delphi? Quote> -- Steve Garland XXXX@XXXXX.COM SkyWire Video - Cross Platform MPEG4 Video Streaming SkyWire Video GPS- Location Based Integration of Video and Remote Devices SkyWire VoIP - Convergence of IP and Telephone Systems- Win32 and PocketPC ASTA Technology Group www.astatech.com www.astaskywire.com |
Kostya
Delphi Developer |
2005-01-20 01:28:51 AM
Re: Peace between Native and .NET freaks (a proposal)QuoteManaged C++ died, MS introduced new C++/CLI platform: interop between native/cli code both ways, ability to do deterministic memory management, compile time optimization etc. etc. All inside single project using the same language. This is what I want. If MS offers it and Borland does not then Delphi looks a second rate tool relegated to the role of former VB. Kostya |
Brent S.
Delphi Developer |
2005-01-20 01:38:20 AM
Re: Peace between Native and .NET freaks (a proposal)
"Chris Brooksbank" <NoSpamPlease@Somewhere>writes
Quote>- Why should a developer accept an additional layer containing bugs to change many times. I don't know how you could think this was an excellent come back at all. At least with Delphi you can predict what code will be created and optimize just as if you were writing in assembler, so I don't get your question. Brent S. |
Kostya
Delphi Developer |
2005-01-20 01:43:57 AM
Re: Peace between Native and .NET freaks (a proposal)
Further to that:
I can leave with being forced to .NET if it does not impede the power. It seems like VS2005 C++ kinda heading that way. I see no reason why Borland should not. Kostya |
Brent S.
Delphi Developer |
2005-01-20 01:54:21 AM
Re: Peace between Native and .NET freaks (a proposal)
"Jim Cooper" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Quote(or possibly preparing for that). QuoteTo futureproof their code. are customers too) will only be happy with backward compatability, fast execution, and a lack of stringent OS requirements. .NET has no compelling benefits for customers who are not developers. Marketing cannot make up the gap. QuoteTo make code available on another platform supporting .NET (eg the CF) QuoteTo make code available to an ASP.NET application Quote
Quote
to sidestep all of the .NET garbage and continue to write native code, and see what it compiles to. Quote
Your right though, .NET won't help you. Quote
out of .NET. Quote
1. .NET will be worth developing for because one day they will have neat stuff that is only in .NET. 2. .NET is the future because MS says so. 3. We might get platform portability. 4. ASP.NET is cool. </argument> 3 out of 4 are promises/threats (2 is a threat). ASP.NET is cool. So for today only (4) is true. Brent S. |
Dennis Landi
Delphi Developer |
2005-01-20 02:14:21 AM
Re: Peace between Native and .NET freaks (a proposal)
"Kostya" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
QuoteFurther to that: Without it, they are so far behind VC++ it ain't funny... (You can not have interop without having both sides of the coin to inter-op with...) You won't be seeing interop between 64-bit D.NET and 32-bit native Delphi. We've already been told by the MS engineers it can not be done. (I've posted the quotes from the VC++ forum a long time ago). -d |
Kostya
Delphi Developer |
2005-01-20 02:25:09 AM
Re: Peace between Native and .NET freaks (a proposal)QuoteThere is no way delphi could head that way without a 64-bit native |
Larry Drews
Delphi Developer |
2005-01-20 02:35:03 AM
Re: Peace between Native and .NET freaks (a proposal)
"Dennis Landi" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>wrote in
Quote
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Joanna Carter (TeamB)
Delphi Developer |
2005-01-20 03:55:55 AM
Re: Peace between Native and .NET freaks (a proposal)
"Brent S." <brentatatmosoftdotcom>a écrit dans le message de news:
41ee9b0d$XXXX@XXXXX.COM... QuoteThe VCL is natively compiled and you have its full source code. The VCL have not obfuscated their assemblies so that you can see how they are made. QuoteAt least with Delphi you can predict what code will be created and Joanna Consultant Software Engineer TeamBUG support for UK-BUG TeamMM support for ModelMaker |
Brent S.
Delphi Developer |
2005-01-20 04:15:21 AM
Re: Peace between Native and .NET freaks (a proposal)
"Joanna Carter (TeamB)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote"Brent S." <brentatatmosoftdotcom>a écrit dans le message de news: others (if they ever get it on another platform). While I agree that JIT compiling is a neat feature, I don't need it. I want to see what the compiler did before my software ships, and be responsible for its performance. With .NET, I don't know which compiler will be used where, or know what it is likely to do with my code. How often are they going to release new versions? Who is to say that a future version won't break something? Multiplicity of target architectures will only aggravate the situation. Brent S. |
Jim Cooper
Delphi Developer |
2005-01-20 04:34:20 AM
Re: Peace between Native and .NET freaks (a proposal)QuoteThe VCL does not sit between the system and the app. Jim Cooper _______________________________________________ Jim Cooper XXXX@XXXXX.COM Falafel Software www.falafelsoft.com _______________________________________________ |
Abdullah Kauchali
Delphi Developer |
2005-01-20 04:37:13 AM
Re: Peace between Native and .NET freaks (a proposal)
Jim Cooper writes:
QuoteAre you talking about the same VCL? What do you think it does sit between? |
Jim Cooper
Delphi Developer |
2005-01-20 04:58:24 AM
Re: Peace between Native and .NET freaks (a proposal)QuoteI can not imagine anything which will be available only in .NET. You can choose not to believe them, but it there OS and their API... QuoteSo you admit there is nothing now? need to panic about this :-) Future proofing is a reason to move to .NET, but IMO it is not especially urgent. Quote.NET has no compelling benefits for customers who are not developers. QuoteMarketing cannot make up the gap. ago about this. QuoteI'll believe it when I see it. MS wants to sell MS operating systems. QuoteThe VCL is not a layer Quoteand you have the source. obfuscated (you can use it then too, but it is not much fun) QuoteNot exactly the same thing is it? Quotecontinue to write native code, and see what it compiles to. then, I have always been more interested in the problem-solving side of things. QuoteStill waiting for the reason. Quote1. .NET will be worth developing for because one day they will have neat QuoteSo for today only (4) is true. The tone of your reply seems to indicate you think I am trying to advocate everyone move to .NET. I am not and I never have (read my previous posts on the subject if you don't believe me). There is no doubt that it will be very important in the near future, though. MS have too much invested in it for it to be otherwise. I have no problem with people not wanting to use it. I do have a problem with the ill-informed diatribes that you often see here :-) Cheers, Jim Cooper _______________________________________________ Jim Cooper XXXX@XXXXX.COM Falafel Software www.falafelsoft.com _______________________________________________ |
Eugen Neuber
Delphi Developer |
2005-01-20 05:24:49 AM
Re: Peace between Native and .NET freaks (a proposal)
Abdullah Kauchali writes:
Quotesomebody writes: |
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
Delphi Developer |
2005-01-20 05:50:56 AM
Re: Peace between Native and .NET freaks (a proposal)
Joanna Carter (TeamB) writes:
Quote.NET is not a black box. Take any of the assemblies shipped and run part of the Rotor project, AFAIK. -- Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de "Analyzing humor is like dissecting a frog. Few people are interested and the frog dies of it." -- E. B. White (1899-1985) |