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Re: .NET


2005-08-30 12:24:52 AM
delphi282
"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
At 14:04:17, 29.08.2005, Fedaykin writes:
I think there is. The VCL.NET is IMO far superior to WinForms, and Delphi
is a language I know very well, and is (IMO) also superior to C# (you
don't have to agree, of course). Why would I choose C# (which would be
rather new) and WinForms (also new), instead of what I know, and for
which I might have a lot of Win32 code already (I don't mean specific
apps, I mean my own libraries I always use)?
Hi Rudy,
I too am much more familiar with Delphi than C#, but have not used VCL.NET.
How is it superior to WinForms? Is is faster or more feature rich somehow?
I don't buy the premise that VCL.NET will make upgrading your UI to Avalon
easier, and I haven't seen any comments from Borland stating that will be
the case even this late. Please let me know if there are any official
comments on this.
-Johnnie
 
 

Re: .NET

At 18:24:52, 29.08.2005, Johnnie Norsworthy writes:
Quote
"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
news:xn0e6ktms1g0ehg00o-velthuis@www.teamb.com...
>At 14:04:17, 29.08.2005, Fedaykin writes:
>I think there is. The VCL.NET is IMO far superior to WinForms, and
>Delphi is a language I know very well, and is (IMO) also superior to
>C# (you don't have to agree, of course). Why would I choose C# (which
>would be rather new) and WinForms (also new), instead of what I know,
>and for which I might have a lot of Win32 code already (I don't mean
>specific apps, I mean my own libraries I always use)?

Hi Rudy,

I too am much more familiar with Delphi than C#, but have not used
VCL.NET. How is it superior to WinForms? Is is faster or more feature
rich somehow?
IME, both.
Quote
I don't buy the premise that VCL.NET will make upgrading your UI to
Avalon easier, and I haven't seen any comments from Borland stating
that will be the case even this late.
I have not used that argument actually. I wrote (somewhere, don't know
where) in this thread that if you separate GUI from code behind it, it
should not be too much work (OK, unless you have apps that have a LOT of
forms) to change the GUI while keeping the logic. Currently, I very much
prefer the VCL.NET, for the reasons given above, and also because it is a
framework I already know. I also write Win32 code, and it is very nice
not to have to switch my thinking everything each time I switch platform.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"Police arrested two kids yesterday, one was drinking battery acid,
the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other
one off." -- Tommy Cooper
 

Re: .NET

Johnnie Norsworthy writes:
Quote
I don't buy the premise that VCL.NET will make upgrading your UI to
Avalon easier, and I haven't seen any comments from Borland stating
that will be the case even this late. Please let me know if there are
any official comments on this.

This kind of confirmation will make a big difference, but the history
show us Borland like keep the secret, IMHO poor strategy in that
situation.
Donald
 

Re: .NET

"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
At 18:24:52, 29.08.2005, Johnnie Norsworthy writes:
>I too am much more familiar with Delphi than C#, but have not used
>VCL.NET. How is it superior to WinForms? Is is faster or more feature
>rich somehow?

IME, both.
Can you give me an example or two. I am not trying to nitpick; I am genuinely
curious how VCL.NET can be better than WinForms.
Quote
>I don't buy the premise that VCL.NET will make upgrading your UI to
>Avalon easier, and I haven't seen any comments from Borland stating
>that will be the case even this late.

I have not used that argument actually. I wrote (somewhere, don't know
where) in this thread that if you separate GUI from code behind it, it
should not be too much work (OK, unless you have apps that have a LOT of
forms) to change the GUI while keeping the logic. Currently, I very much
prefer the VCL.NET, for the reasons given above, and also because it is a
framework I already know. I also write Win32 code, and it is very nice
not to have to switch my thinking everything each time I switch platform.
I didn't mean to imply that you agreed with the "upgrade path" premise. I
was just stating that I personally did not believe it.
And on another note, I'd like you to work for every company that I do
business with, please. You must have responded to this message 15 seconds
after I hit [Send]. :-)
-Johnnie
 

Re: .NET

Johnnie Norsworthy writes:
Quote
I too am much more familiar with Delphi than C#, but have not used
VCL.NET. How is it superior to WinForms? Is is faster or more feature
rich somehow?
I would say that it is "different," and I have quantified this:
blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz/articles/VCLForDotNetVsWinForms.aspx
Quote
I don't buy the premise that VCL.NET will make upgrading your UI to
Avalon easier, and I haven't seen any comments from Borland stating
that will be the case even this late. Please let me know if there are
any official comments on this.
I think that *if* you have an existing VCL application it is faster to
convert VCL ->VCL for .NET ->Avalon than VCL ->WinForms ->Avalon.
-Craig
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] . Vertex Systems Corp. . Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
IB 6 versions prior to 6.0.1.6 are pre-release and may corrupt
your DBs! Open Edition users, get 6.0.1.6 from mers.com
 

Re: .NET

At 18:37:04, 29.08.2005, Johnnie Norsworthy writes:
Quote
"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
news:xn0e6ku6a1gsmvr010-velthuis@www.teamb.com...
>At 18:24:52, 29.08.2005, Johnnie Norsworthy writes:
>>I too am much more familiar with Delphi than C#, but have not used
>>VCL.NET. How is it superior to WinForms? Is is faster or more
>>feature rich somehow?
>
>IME, both.

Can you give me an example or two. I am not trying to nitpick; I am
genuinely curious how VCL.NET can be better than WinForms.
1. Try to find a WinForms component that allows user draw. Not many do,
while it is very well present in the VCL(.NET)
2. The VCL has TStrings, which is used for all kinds of collections of
strings (and related obejcts). In WinForms, each component has its own
interface, sometimes an array of strings, something a class, but each tie
something different.
3. WinForms uses GDI+, which does not use hardware acceleration (yet),
while VCL.NET, like the original VCL, uses the GDI.
Quote
And on another note, I'd like you to work for every company that I
do business with, please. You must have responded to this message 15
seconds after I hit [Send]. :-)
LOL! I know that most replies take a long time, all around the world.
Well, try to email me, and you will have to wait for a few days too,
sometimes. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. it is the transition that's
troublesome."
- Isaac Asimov
 

Re: .NET

"Craig Stuntz [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM [a.k.a. acm.org]>wrote
in message news:XXXX@XXXXX.COM...
Quote
Johnnie Norsworthy writes:
>I too am much more familiar with Delphi than C#, but have not used
>VCL.NET. How is it superior to WinForms? Is is faster or more feature
>rich somehow?
I would say that it is "different," and I have quantified this:
blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz/articles/VCLForDotNetVsWinForms.aspx
I had one question about VCL.NET and WinForms after reading this blog again.
If you use VCL.NET, does that mean you cannot use 3rd party UI libraries
that are not specifically written for VCL.NET? I had never thought much
about that before.
 

Re: .NET

Johnnie Norsworthy writes:
Quote
I had one question about VCL.NET and WinForms after reading this blog
again. If you use VCL.NET, does that mean you cannot use 3rd party UI
libraries that are not specifically written for VCL.NET?
No, you can wrap them in the same way you'd wrap any other WinForms
control. But it is a good bit more effort than using them in a WinForms
app.
Note, however, that several vendors (e.g., Woll2Woll/InfoPower,
DevExpress, etc.) offer VCL for .NET controls.
-Craig
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] . Vertex Systems Corp. . Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
All the great TeamB service you've come to expect plus (New!)
Irish Tin Whistle tips: learningtowhistle.blogspot.com
 

Re: .NET

Larry Drews writes:
Quote

But which way would you bet? Borland's history is also that they
have maintained the VCL compatibility over the Win32-.Net
I bet they will do, VCL.NET will play Avalon.
Donald
 

Re: .NET

Johnnie Norsworthy writes:
Quote

I don't buy the premise that VCL.NET will make upgrading your UI to
Avalon easier, and I haven't seen any comments from Borland stating
that will be the case even this late. Please let me know if there are
any official comments on this.
Don't know if it will be easier (but possibly) however, by sticking with
VCL.Net now, it means you will only have to rewite code *once* (if necessary
at all) instead of once now to Winforms then again to Avalon.
--
Wayne Niddery - Logic Fundamentals, Inc. (www.logicfundamentals.com)
RADBooks: www.logicfundamentals.com/RADBooks.html
"Democracy, without the guarantee of liberty, is merely a method of
selecting tyrants." - Alan Nitikman
 

Re: .NET

"Fedaykin" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
My point is there is no .obvious true
way to follow if we decide to start a new app today.
At what point in the history of programming was there ever an "obvious true
way to follow" when starting a new application?
 

Re: .NET

"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
I see you have never seriously tried WinForms. They are a rather minimal
GUI library, and lots of features the VCL.NET already has are not
implemented in WinForms. Second, I guess you would be more familiar with
VCL (and the VCL.NET is hardly different) and Delphi already.
There are plenty of 3rd party components for WinForms.
 

Re: .NET

Scott Roberts writes:
Quote
At what point in the history of programming was there ever an
"obvious true way to follow" when starting a new application?
Very true.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] . Vertex Systems Corp. . Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
How to ask questions the smart way:
www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
 

Re: .NET

Craig Stuntz [TeamB] writes:
Quote
>At what point in the history of programming was there ever an
>"obvious true way to follow" when starting a new application?
Very true.
Closest I have ever found was to look around for an existing app that had
similar functional design requirements, rename it, and gut it down to
the needed basics. Then start writing the new app on top of that
skeleton.
 

Re: .NET

marc hoffman writes:
Quote
Ok, my mistake then, i assumed it was. What is Office written in?
I believe that the Office team has its own framework. They share a
lot of code between the Windows and Mac versions of their apps. My
guess is that it is based on the framework used in early versions of
Excel.
--
Mike Swaim XXXX@XXXXX.COM at home | Quote: "Boingie"^4 Y,W & D
MD Anderson Dept. of Biostatistics & Applied Mathematics
XXXX@XXXXX.COM or XXXX@XXXXX.COM at work
ICBM: 29.763N 95.363W|Disclaimer: Yeah, like I speak for MD Anderson.