Board index » delphi » Re: Delphi 8 and ado.net

Re: Delphi 8 and ado.net


2004-03-01 10:18:36 AM
delphi84
In borland.public.delphi.non-technical, Lauchlan M
<XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes <4041e19e$1
@newsgroups.borland.com>...
Quote
I
must be missing some big philosophical point, so if you could fill me in
that would be great!
Perhaps the problem is not that you are missing any big philosophical point,
but that you are looking for revolution where there is really just evolution.
Good evolution, but evolution none the less.
--
***Free Your Mind***
 
 

Re: Delphi 8 and ado.net

Captain Jake writes:
Quote
Maybe it is just me, but it seems to me that ClientDatasets are
somewhat long in the tooth at this time. They were a very clever and
useful idea when they first came out, but that was several years ago.
ADO.NET feels like the next logical step, to me.
ADO.NET datasets are basically TClientDatasets. I don't think
TClientDatasets are long in the tooth -- I think rather the opposite:
that MS if finally seeing their awesomeness. TClientDatset may very
well be the coolest and most underappreciated thing ever to come out of
Borland. IMV, ADO.NET does nothing that TClientDatasets weren't doing
years ago.
The responses to this post ought to be interesting, eh? ;-)
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation
Read my Delphi Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick/
 

Re: Delphi 8 and ado.net

Quote
this raises this question for me, a satisfied user of NexusDB 1.0: does
this
work well enough that there is no need to wait for NexusDB itself to come
out
in .NET form? Can we just use this ADO.NET provider and acheive the same
results as if NexusDB had
already been ported to .NET?
I think that is right. If I understand corectly, I think Thorsten wants the
'pure' .net-written version to embed it better into fridges and suchlike,
using the CF or something. I am not very clear on it, but Iwould imagine
Thorsten would be happy to explain it.
But I am not clear whether there will be a big performance difference between
the .net-written and Win32-written version of NexusDB, or in which
environment it would be faster.
You could ask on their ng! <g>
Lauchlan M
 

Re: Delphi 8 and ado.net

Quote
>>If you
>>believe the two are quite similar object models, so be it.
>
>No I wasn't saying that. I was just saying they are not so radically
>different to use.
>

Sir, I bow to your superior experience and prowess...
Gawd, someone else taking on Nick's slick customer PR.
Well then, I acknowledge your incredible judgement and perceptive wisdom in
perceiving my experience and prowess, and also your unsurpassed humility in
expressing this, and only wish that everyone elses newsgroup posts could be
such an unbelievable pleasure to engage with.
Lauchlan M
 

Re: Delphi 8 and ado.net

Lauchlan M writes:
Quote
Well then, I acknowledge your incredible judgement and perceptive
wisdom in perceiving my experience and prowess, and also your
unsurpassed humility in expressing this, and only wish that everyone
elses newsgroup posts could be such an unbelievable pleasure to
engage with.
Very nicely done. ;-)
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation
Read my Delphi Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick/
 

Re: Delphi 8 and ado.net

Quote
>Maybe it is just me, but it seems to me that ClientDatasets are
>somewhat long in the tooth at this time. They were a very clever and
>useful idea when they first came out, but that was several years ago.
>ADO.NET feels like the next logical step, to me.

ADO.NET datasets are basically TClientDatasets. I don't think
TClientDatasets are long in the tooth -- I think rather the opposite:
that MS if finally seeing their awesomeness. TClientDatset may very
well be the coolest and most underappreciated thing ever to come out of
Borland. IMV, ADO.NET does nothing that TClientDatasets weren't doing
years ago.
Lino Tadros in his Oz roadshow talk mentioned that he is on the boards (or
committees or something) of both Borland and MS (the point being hence in a
position to be informed) and then that the ADO.NET DataSet basically _is_
(as you say) the ClientDataSet, which MS got as part of the legal settlement
between Borland and MS several years ago. Lino had a set of slides with CDS
on one side and ADO.NET dataset on the other and set out a fair case that
they are (with minor tweaks or changes) pretty much the same.
Lino (I think jokingly) suggested that MS therefore got the
ClientDataSet/ADO.NET Dataset for US$185M. This of course is not at all
strictly accurate since there were many issues and factors being settled.
Lauchlan M
 

Re: Delphi 8 and ado.net

Harry Van Tassell writes:
Quote
Insipid opined the shark as he spit out the hook.<g>
LOL.
Harry, you are truly an original.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation
Read my Delphi Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick/
 

Re: Delphi 8 and ado.net

Lauchlan M writes:
Quote
...and only wish that everyone
elses newsgroup posts could be such an unbelievable pleasure to
engage with.
I'm glad you enjoyed our little tryst, just leave fifty dollars on the bed
side table.<G>
--Hairy
 

Re: Delphi 8 and ado.net

"Nick Hodges (TeamB)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
[..]
Quote
IMV, ADO.NET does nothing that TClientDatasets weren't doing years ago.
Well, I don't know what the equivalent to DataRelation classes are for the
CDS but you might shed some light here.
How would I set the CDS to have 4 tables (1 master, 2 details and 1 sub
detail) and have rows automatically deleted or updated when I change a
master (cascade updates, no code)? Or how would I prevent users to insert
records that don't match a ForeignKey constraint without writing code? Also
what would be the equivalent of the method Merge or how could I browse
though the delta changes programmatically and modify those changes?
Finally, I am not aware of the possibility to extract elements like
dataviews from a nested TClientDataset: am I correct saying that a nested
dataset just exist in that form and cannot be extracted and manipulated
independently from its master inside the CDS? Ah, finally, how would I
perform a simple XPath query on my data?
Quote
The responses to this post ought to be interesting, eh? ;-)
Maybe but they work in a very different manner althought there are many
similarities in their scope of use. The dataset is based on the concept of
cursor while ADO.Net datasets are more similar to an XML document in which
you basically have arrays of arrays of elements. This basically allows you
to write code that is independent from a record position and, for instance,
is better suited for multi threaded access. In a way you could achieve
something similar using cloned cursors but you'd have to create a different
object for each thread or keep restoring the record position and use
critical sections from the calling code.
Regards,
Alessandro
 

Re: Delphi 8 and ado.net

Lauchlan M writes:
Quote
Lino (I think jokingly) suggested that MS therefore got the
ClientDataSet/ADO.NET Dataset for US$185M.
I believe Lino is right. A good chunk of that money was for licensing
a number of Borland's patents. I wonder how long that licensing
agreement lasts.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation
Read my Delphi Blog -- www.lemanix.com/nick/
 

Re: Delphi 8 and ado.net

Quote
>Lino (I think jokingly) suggested that MS therefore got the
>ClientDataSet/ADO.NET Dataset for US$185M.

I believe Lino is right. A good chunk of that money was for licensing
a number of Borland's patents. I wonder how long that licensing
agreement lasts.
And also, in repsonse to Alessandro's valid points on CDS/ADO.NET DataSet,
having got CDS several years ago, there was no reason MS would not want to
extend it in various ways from that base. One wouldn't expect MS to stand
still with it, for however long it is been now.
Lauchlan M
 

Re: Delphi 8 and ado.net

Quote
>Lino (I think jokingly) suggested that MS therefore got the
>ClientDataSet/ADO.NET Dataset for US$185M.

Makes the old MIDAS licensing (pre D7) seem quite reasonable :-)
That probably is/was very reasonable given MS's budget . . . <g>
Lauchlan M
 

Re: Delphi 8 and ado.net

Harry Van Tassell writes:
Quote
I'm glad you enjoyed our little tryst, just leave fifty dollars on
the bed side table.<G>
This isn't going to deteriorate into another thread about tarts and
knickers is it?
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dclegg_at_ebetonline_dot_com
cc.borland.com/codecentral/ccweb.exe/author
Quality Central. The best way to bug Borland about bugs.
qc.borland.com
"Heh Heh Heh! Lisa! Vampires are make believe, just like elves and
gremlins and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
 

Re: Delphi 8 and ado.net

Lauchlan M writes:
Quote
Lino (I think jokingly) suggested that MS therefore got the
ClientDataSet/ADO.NET Dataset for US$185M.
Makes the old MIDAS licensing (pre D7) seem quite reasonable :-)
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dclegg_at_ebetonline_dot_com
cc.borland.com/codecentral/ccweb.exe/author
Quality Central. The best way to bug Borland about bugs.
qc.borland.com
"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer
Simpson
 

Re: Delphi 8 and ado.net

"Lauchlan M" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
[..]
Quote
And also, in repsonse to Alessandro's valid points on CDS/ADO.NET DataSet,
having got CDS several years ago, there was no reason MS would not want to
extend it in various ways from that base. One wouldn't expect MS to stand
still with it, for however long it is been now.
Of course, but I truly don't see why the ADO.Net dataset is not seen as an
improvement on the ADO Recordset but keeps being compared to the CDS. The
old recordset supported master detail relationships, had embedded XML
support and a lot of other things. It was missing features such as field
constraints but conceptually it could be considered the origin of the
ADO.Net dataset as well as the CDS is.
Go figure ;-)