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Re: Why I am dissappointed in Codegear


2007-02-23 08:54:42 AM
delphi262
Sig writes:
Quote
Exactly! Turbo Pro was promised as a professional version of one
personalty with the future upgrade path. Now we're told it is gonna be
crippled.
No, that is not true. Turbo was /always/ billed as a lower end version.
And Turbo customers can easily upgrade to the Studio level, so this
shoudln't be an issue. I can not stop you from being upset about it, but
I don't think you should be.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 
 

Re: Why I am dissappointed in Codegear

Quote
Rick Carter writes:
>Uh-oh! I am concerned that the message may be "we decided we were
>giving away too much with the Turbos, so they will be crippled,
>stripped, and dumbed down in the future."
Nick Hodges writes:
Let me put it this way -- Turbo customers who are concerned about such
a thing should probably be migrating forward to the Studio level.
Nick, just a few months ago, you were assuring Turbo Pro customers that
they would have an upgrade path and upgrade pricing within the Turbo line
of products. Don't you think that more than just a few of them will be
upset if they don't find at least the same components and the same
functionality in the next Turbo version? Sure, they can spend a few more
bucks than they had planned and move up to the Studio line, but I would
predict that, before they do, they'll get out their torches and pitchforks
and start screaming "Bait and switch! Bait and switch!"
Rick Carter
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Chair, Delphi/Paradox SIG, Cincinnati PC Users Group
--- posted by geoForum on delphi.newswhat.com
 

Re: Why I am dissappointed in Codegear

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:58:07 -0800, "Michael Swindell \(CodeGear\)"
<XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
We are working on a new model for public disclosure on product and feature
initatives (what we used to call "roadmaps") - there are many rules both
from a finance and legal perspective that we have to adhere to in order to
speak publicly about potential future releases - there is an entire
bookshelf here on the subject now... <sigh>
I have a simple solution, simply prepend the word "not" everywhere.
Ie, "This is not a roadmap for 2007: Delphi 2007 will most likely not
be released mid-2007, it will not contain ABC or XYZ." Etc etc.
Us normal people will understand, and the laywers will be happy.
- Asbjørn
 

Re: Why I am dissappointed in Codegear

Nick,
It was my impression the Turbo's were for a single personality.
The studios were for multiple.
Explorer for Students, Pro for developers.
Why should I buy the other personalities, when I know I will
just need the one.
The one thing I always like about Borland compilers was that they
were always lean. It seems like the BDS is starting to gain ground
on M$'s approach of becoming a 'kitchen sink' compiler.
I would have preferred that the Turbo's were the _exact_ same as the
BDS, just a single personality with all the same features.
I am aware that the BDS has the option to install only what you need
and that is fine. I will just consider the other personalities as a free set
of
tools that come with the one I need ;)
Regards,
Scott.
"Nick Hodges (CodeGear)" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Craig writes:

>People can not understand the difference between Turbo Delphi and
>Studio Delphi

Turbo products are for beginners, hobbyists, students, and other
non-professionals. Going forward, their feature sets will reflect that.

If you are a professional developer or more serious than a student or
hobbyist, or just want the latest and greatest and fullest feature
sets, then get the Studio level of products.

Does that clear it up?

--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: Why I am dissappointed in Codegear

Scott Martin writes:
Quote
It was my impression the Turbo's were for a single personality.
The studios were for multiple.

Explorer for Students, Pro for developers.
Right -- that is the point. People have gotten the wrong impression.
So we are adjusting.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: Why I am dissappointed in Codegear

In article <45de3b52$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>, Nick Hodges (CodeGear)
says...
Quote
Sig writes:

>Exactly! Turbo Pro was promised as a professional version of one
>personalty with the future upgrade path. Now we're told it is gonna be
>crippled.

No, that is not true. Turbo was /always/ billed as a lower end version.
You should perhaps check out your own website where you have, from the
start and to this day, positioned Turbo Professional (clue is in the
name) for individual professional developers, which seems to be the
distinction you now draw between Studio and non-Studio products.
i.e. if you are a professional, Studio products are for you.
Are you saying that that positioning is not changing?
You have sold X, and are now saying that in future to remain current
with X you now have to upgrade not to the equivalent new version of the
product originally purchased by, sold to and marketted at that customer,
but to a different, more expensive version.
I guess, to be fair, we don't know how much more expensive it will be
since we have yet to even see hide-or-hair of whatever the replacement
will be for Turbo Professional.
ie. Turbo <better>
Incidentally, could I suggest "Turbo Developer" ? That falls nicely
"above" the hobbyist/student type pitch, but a little short of the
"professional" pitch that would, after all, no longer apply.
--
Jolyon Smith
WHILE INKEY$ WEND
 

Re: Why I am dissappointed in Codegear

Michael Swindell (CodeGear) writes:
Impressive reponse Michael. I have no doubt that you are 100% serious
about the call and CodeGear's goals.
Quote
you really feel CodeGear is trying to do some kind of shell game -
please pick up the phone and call me 1-831-431-1000 and ask for
Michael Swindell
--
David Farrell-Garcia
Whidbey Island Software, LLC
 

Re: Why I am dissappointed in Codegear

Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
Rick Carter writes:

>Uh-oh! I am concerned that the message may be "we decided we were
>giving away too much with the Turbos, so they will be crippled,
>stripped, and dumbed down in the future."

Let me put it this way -- Turbo customers who are concerned about such
a thing should probably be migrating forward to the Studio level.
So you are tacitly confirming that is going to happen ?
That is dismal news for all those who bought Turbo.
 

Re: Why I am dissappointed in Codegear

Bob writes:
Quote
So you are tacitly confirming that is going to happen ?
That is dismal news for all those who bought Turbo.
I don't see why -- Turbo customers can upgrade to future Turbos or to
the Studio versions. Best of both worlds.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: Why I am dissappointed in Codegear

Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
Bob writes:

>So you are tacitly confirming that is going to happen ?
>That is dismal news for all those who bought Turbo.

I don't see why -- Turbo customers can upgrade to future Turbos or to
the Studio versions.
I see.
I see Codegear switching directions and SKU definitions on customers in
midstream.
I see things that worry me about Codegear's direction.
Bait and switch is not a good way to ensure future sales or customer
loyalty.
 

Re: Why I am dissappointed in Codegear

Bob writes:
Quote
Bait and switch is not a good way to ensure future sales or customer
loyalty.
Forgive me, but I think that "bait and switch" comment is out of line.
We've /always/ been clear that the Turbos are "a rung below" the other
products. We've never said anything else. There are slides in
presentations all over the place here that show the Turbos "under" the
studio offerings.
There's no "bait and switch" and to say so is insulting and out of
line. Sorry.
If you are a Turbo owner, you can upgrade the next version of the
Turbos or you upgrade to the Studio Professional. that is a great deal
either way.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: Why I am dissappointed in Codegear

I think Bob is implying that future Turbos will remove features that are
currently in Turbo--which is not the case at all. However, future Turbos
won't necessarily have the same feature set as the non-Turbos.
Nick Hodges (CodeGear) writes:
Quote
We've /always/ been clear that the Turbos are "a rung below" the other
products. We've never said anything else. There are slides in
presentations all over the place here that show the Turbos "under" the
studio offerings.
 

Re: Why I am dissappointed in Codegear

J,
Quote
I think Bob is implying that future Turbos will remove features that are
currently in Turbo--which is not the case at all. However, future Turbos
won't necessarily have the same feature set as the non-Turbos.
How could he, nobody has said that - did I miss a memo :)
Turbos won't have the same features as Delphi Pro but then they won't have
the features of Delphi Explorer either. Why is the assumption that Delphi Pro
will remain as is and Turbo will loose something ... _maybe_ Delphi Pro will
gain ... hang on a sec, last time *I* checked it already has.
--
Dave
Therapist [Open Source]
Guild of Delphi Hobbyists and Occupational Developers
 

Re: Why I am dissappointed in Codegear

J. Lee writes:
Quote
I think Bob is implying that future Turbos will remove features that
are currently in Turbo--which is not the case at all. However, future
Turbos won't necessarily have the same feature set as the non-Turbos.
The feature sets for the Turbos going forward haven't been determined
yet. They will likely not be as feature rich as the Studio products,
not. We will be adding features to the Studio products going forward.
--
Nick Hodges
Delphi Product Manager - CodeGear
blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
 

Re: Why I am dissappointed in Codegear

Bob <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
Daniël Mantione writes:
>Anno 2007 many teachers still stick
>with the Free Pascal or even Turbo Pascal with the CRT unit.

Dont know of any reputable schools or universities that still teach Pascal.
Many still do. It greatly depends on country, for example the
U.S. has always been a bit anti-Pascal. In Lithuania it is
teached nation-wide, they use their own Free Pascal IDE
(ims.mii.lt/fps/lt/about/). In South Africa it was
teached nation wide, but they were still using Turbo Pascal,
but since a few years Java is permitted too. Pascal is still
taught a lot there, but it needs attention, as it is loosing
big to Java, Free Pascal is not a permitted option (nor is
Delphi), and few teachers want to use Turbo Pascal to
eternity.
Another country where Pascal is strong in education is
Hungary. There is now a textbook for Free Pascal available in
Hungarian (computerbooks.hu/FreePascal/) which is used
in schools.
In my own country, the Technical University of Eindhoven uses
Free Pascal for their education. Tom Verhoeff is responsible for that, you might know him of ACM ICPC involvement. They are
have a research group which is doing experiments with language
extensions and they use the Free Pascal source code for that.
In general we can count "help me with my homework questions".
Many come from eastern Europe. Spanish speaking countries are
also strongly represented.
Daniël Mantione