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Re: Best Blog Entry in Years


2006-12-02 05:26:14 AM
delphi269
Ron L. writes:
Quote
I think it is
inevitable that .NET will happen and there are enough people with
enough investment in Delphi Win32 code that making a good way to move
it to .NET without a complete rewrite is useful.
.NET doesn't need to happen. There is Win64.
 
 

Re: Best Blog Entry in Years

"Nathaniel L. Walker" writes:
Quote

You didn't even have to watch the newbie videos (they were very basic,
IMO).
Just click the links and close the windows after they load.

Took about 1.5 minutes.

I got the promotion from an add at SourceForge.net, LMAO.
And did you get in on the latest promotion which awards free Vista Business
edition and Office 2007 Professional edition for watching 3 web casts of
each product?
www.powertogether.com/
Opps, I just checked and they are now showing as sold out but were available
yesterday. LMAO.
 

Re: Best Blog Entry in Years

"I.P. Nichols" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
"Nathaniel L. Walker" writes:
>
>You didn't even have to watch the newbie videos (they were very basic,
>IMO).
>Just click the links and close the windows after they load.
>
>Took about 1.5 minutes.
>
>I got the promotion from an add at SourceForge.net, LMAO.

And did you get in on the latest promotion which awards free Vista
Business edition and Office 2007 Professional edition for watching 3 web
casts of each product?

www.powertogether.com/

Opps, I just checked and they are now showing as sold out but were
available yesterday. LMAO.
DAMN! :( Lol...
- Nate.
 

Re: Best Blog Entry in Years

Quote
Not to say CodeGear may not risk spreading too thin, you oversimplied
quite a lot :)
Yes I did. My point: Nintendo is not more gamer oriented than MS and Sony.
Nintendo is succesful by focusing on a specific platform. Allen concluded in
his weblog that CodeGear is like Nintendo by being developer oriented. I
don't think it is the right conclusion. I believe they can only be like
Nintendo by focusing on the the right platforms/languages.
Rick
 

Re: Best Blog Entry in Years

"Rick Beerendonk" writes:
Quote
>
>Not to say CodeGear may not risk spreading too thin, you oversimplied
>quite a lot :)

Yes I did. My point: Nintendo is not more gamer oriented than MS and Sony.
Nintendo is succesful by focusing on a specific platform. Allen concluded
in his weblog that CodeGear is like Nintendo by being developer oriented.
I don't think it is the right conclusion. I believe they can only be like
Nintendo by focusing on the the right platforms/languages.
I also reached the same conclusion when reading his blog because I had heard
that Nintendo' Wii was more consumer (family) oriented and thus provided a
better overall user experience than Sony's PS3. The take away is that it
matters which segments of the developer market that CodeGear intends to
appeal to and not just that they intend to be developer oriented.
The wide diversity and passion of arguments within this ng community
indicates there are several segments within the Delphi community. For
CodeGear to spread their limited resources too widely (thinly) in an effort
to appeal to all these segments IMO will not prove to be the optimum
resource allocation. Saying we are developer oriented is a bit like saying
we support apple pie and motherhood - a clich? bromide, commonplace,
platitude, truism if you get my point. ;-)
 

Re: Best Blog Entry in Years

"Nathaniel L. Walker" writes:
Quote
"I.P. Nichols" writes:
>
>www.powertogether.com/
>
>Opps, I just checked and they are now showing as sold out but were
>available yesterday. LMAO.

DAMN! :( Lol...
I just read that 30,000 copies was the limit, as the wise old owl said, the
early bird get the free software...
 

Re: Best Blog Entry in Years

Yea I missed it, which is almost embarassing given the amount of
time I spend online :)
I almost never miss these things.
<sighs>
- Nate.
"I.P. Nichols" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
"Nathaniel L. Walker" writes:
>"I.P. Nichols" writes:
>>
>>www.powertogether.com/
>>
>>Opps, I just checked and they are now showing as sold out but were
>>available yesterday. LMAO.
>
>DAMN! :( Lol...

I just read that 30,000 copies was the limit, as the wise old owl said,
the early bird get the free software...
 

Re: Best Blog Entry in Years

Quote
I only hope that people keep in mind that Delphians and CGers
are not the only ones reading these posts.
A lot of potential newbies are lurking/perusing too, or will be over
google,
just like I do when checking out a potential new tool.
--
Thanks,
Brad.
Excellent point Brad. It would be sad indeed if newbies were put off looking
seriously at Delphi simply because of all the negative posts in this news
group.
They will not have the understanding of the posters being disappointed
because their particular problem/wish list item hasn't been addressed.
I am getting more and more frustrated by all of the people here who seem to
know more about what CG's options are, directions should be, product
alignments should be, marketing strategies should be, features should be,
hiring practices should be, pricing policies should be, etc. without having
any knowledge of the set of operating parameters/constraints/opportuinties
that are available to CG.
I feel better now.
-----Jon-----
 

Re: Best Blog Entry in Years

Quote
Fair enough - but the question is not just what your needs are - but what
are the needs of most of CG's customers.
I wish all the luck to CG, but I can only take into account what I
need what they do for the rest does not matter to me.
Quote
I think it is inevitable that .NET
will happen and there are enough people with enough investment in Delphi
I will not happen. It did happen already.
Quote
Win32 code that making a good way to move it to .NET without a complete
rewrite is useful.
That is the biggest mistake IMHO. Moving is not always appropriate.
.NET has it is own paradigm and code patterns that are much different
from native. Straight move produces ugly results.
What should be made as a first step is not MOVE but INTEGRATE
and have advantage of both approaches.
That is what MS did itself and that is why they invented
mixed mode compiler and that is what Borland should have
started with.
If instead they force me to move there will be no trace
of Delphi in my new products. I will move to MS since
it lets me do combination of native/managed with the
least pain
 

Re: Best Blog Entry in Years

Kostya <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
>Win32 code that making a good way to move it to .NET without a complete
>rewrite is useful.

That is the biggest mistake IMHO. Moving is not always appropriate.
.NET has it is own paradigm and code patterns that are much different
from native. Straight move produces ugly results.
Could you examplify where the paradigms and code patterns are greatly
different?
Quote
What should be made as a first step is not MOVE but INTEGRATE
and have advantage of both approaches.

That is what MS did itself and that is why they invented
mixed mode compiler and that is what Borland should have
started with.

If instead they force me to move there will be no trace
of Delphi in my new products. I will move to MS since
it lets me do combination of native/managed with the
least pain
Could you point me to an explanation of what "mixed mode" is?
Lars F.
 

Re: Best Blog Entry in Years

Quote
>That is the biggest mistake IMHO. Moving is not always appropriate.
>.NET has it is own paradigm and code patterns that are much different
>from native. Straight move produces ugly results.

Could you examplify where the paradigms and code patterns are greatly
different?
I honestly believe that question is highly rhetorical <rbg>:)
Quote
>That is what MS did itself and that is why they invented
>mixed mode compiler and that is what Borland should have
>started with.
>
>If instead they force me to move there will be no trace
>of Delphi in my new products. I will move to MS since
>it lets me do combination of native/managed with the
>least pain

Could you point me to an explanation of what "mixed mode" is?
A mixxed-mode compiler is a single compiler that can target native
Win32 with extensions that allow it to leverage, and target the .NET
Framework. Visual C++ is a mixxed mode compiler. If you want
.NET applications, you pass it the /clr switch. If you don't pass that
switch, you get a Native Win32 application.
Mixxed mode compilers are good because they allow you to link
native libraries into an application, as well as make use of .NET
Framework classes.
And no, P/Invoke isn't really a substitute for a mixxed-mode
compiler, should you think of that :)
There was a HUGE thread about it not too long ago here.
- Nate.
 

Re: Best Blog Entry in Years

"Nathaniel L. Walker" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes:
Quote
>Could you examplify where the paradigms and code patterns are greatly
>different?

I honestly believe that question is highly rhetorical <rbg>:)
Yes, somewhat :)
Quote
>Could you point me to an explanation of what "mixed mode" is?
[... deletia ...]]
Mixxed mode compilers are good because they allow you to link
native libraries into an application, as well as make use of .NET
Framework classes.

And no, P/Invoke isn't really a substitute for a mixxed-mode
compiler, should you think of that :)

There was a HUGE thread about it not too long ago here.
Ok, I get it... sort of reminds me of the 16-bit to 32-bit transition
with Windows 95... a lot of ugly "mixed mode" transition solutions
appeared then as well.
Mixed mode sounds like a workaround for a not quite mature .NET
platform. What code would you typically write in native mode vs .net
mode? How common is the need for mixed mode?
Lars F.
 

Re: Best Blog Entry in Years

Jon Springs writes:
Quote
Excellent point Brad. It would be sad indeed if newbies were put off
looking seriously at Delphi simply because of all the negative posts
in this news group.
Perhaps the nntp server could be altered to automagically include a
disclaimer such as the following
"DISCLAIMER: The thoughts and concepts in this post may be adversely
affected by the inherently pessimistic nature of this newsgroup, and
may not be a true reflection of the feeling of a majority of Delphi
users, who quite frankly have a lot better things to do with their time
than hang out in here"
:-)
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
cc.borland.com/Author.aspx
QualityCentral. The best way to bug Borland about bugs.
qc.borland.com
"Oh, I am not gonna lie to you Marge... see ya" - Homer Simpson
 

Re: Best Blog Entry in Years

"Lars Fosdal" <Lars(q)Fosdal.com>writes
Quote
Ok, I get it... sort of reminds me of the 16-bit to 32-bit transition
with Windows 95... a lot of ugly "mixed mode" transition solutions
appeared then as well.
Then you don't get it.
Quote
Mixed mode sounds like a workaround for a not quite mature .NET
platform. What code would you typically write in native mode vs .net
mode? How common is the need for mixed mode?
Huh? Visual C++ has been a mixxed-mode compiler since .NET 1.0
was released, the only thing that changed about it was the language
extensions it used to facilitate .NET development (Managed C++ to
C++/CLI).
What code would you typically write in .NET vs Native code (again
rhetorical...)?
Snip:
"Compilers that utilize native code or unmanaged types are called mixed-mode
compilers. Mixed-mode compilation enables languages like ANSI C and C++ to
run on the .NET platform with reasonable performance. Mixed-mode compilers
can pick and choose which services they want to relegate to the runtime and
which they would rather implement themselves. This flexibility makes a lot
of things possible on .NET that would be awkward or impossible on the JVM. A
programmer might want to represent a custom hardware device as a managed
class but finds that communicating with the device requires a few lines of
platform-specific assembly language. A mixed-mode compiler could implement a
method in native machine code without forcing the programmer to go through
an interop layer like P/Invoke or JNI. The compiler emits metadata for the
method, declaring it as native, and provides enough information to allow the
runtime to invoke the method. This lets the runtime call the method
directly, rather than going through an interop layer like P/Invoke."
More at:
www2.sys-con.com/itsg/virtualcd/dotnet/archives/0103/whittington/index.html
- Nate.
 

Re: Best Blog Entry in Years

Quote
Mixed mode sounds like a workaround for a not quite mature .NET
platform.
Speechless... You better stay with pure .NET