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Speculation - Who would by an IDE company ?


2006-02-13 04:16:39 PM
delphi161
So who would want to by an IDE company ? Let's see:
Microsoft - Delphi language lives on inside Visual Studio.NET. C++Builder,
C#Builder, JBuilder, etc. put out of their misery (or left to stagnate).
Computer Associates - "Where good software goes to die". Products live on,
but with price hikes to squeeze every last penny out of existing customers
(so what's new!).
IBM, Sun, Oracle, - Java/Eclipse shops, why would they want it ?
China - "Red Flag Delphi" :-P.
Any other guesses ?
Andy Mackie.
 
 

Re:Speculation - Who would by an IDE company ?

A Mackie writes:
Quote
Any other guesses ?
A group of investors that don't necessarily have a company name behind
them as yet?
--
Dave Nottage [TeamB]
Have questions?: www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Want answers?: support.borland.com
 

Re:Speculation - Who would by an IDE company ?

Hi!
Quote
So who would want to by an IDE company ? Let's see:
Whoever wants to make money and Delphi is not
competitive to their product line?
You make it seem like a political decision... As if though
Delphi is not able to stand on its own, but only if it is being
abused by a bigger corporation.
Delphi would have been canceled long ago, if it was not
profitable..
Best Regards!
Atmapuri
 

Re:Speculation - Who would by an IDE company ?

"Dave Nottage [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
<XXXX@XXXXX.COM>
Quote
A group of investors that don't necessarily have a company name behind
them as yet?
That strikes me as the most likely. However, I wonder what happens if they all
make an offer that Borland considers too low, or unacceptable because it would
divide up the product line? Do they let Delphi die simply because they think it
is worth far more than the bids? Or do they accept the best bid even though it
means breaking up the product lines to buy only Delphi, and then with staff
cutbacks?
--
***Free Your Mind***
Posted with JSNewsreader Preview 1.0.4.2054
 

Re:Speculation - Who would by an IDE company ?

Atmapuri,
Quote
Whoever wants to make money and Delphi is not
competitive to their product line?
Like Borland? ;P
--
marc hoffman
Chief Architect, .NET
RemObjects Software
www.chromesville.com
and the fifty-two daughters of the revolution
turn the gold to chrome
 

Re:Speculation - Who would by an IDE company ?

A Mackie writes:
Quote
So who would want to by an IDE company ? Let's see:

Microsoft - Delphi language lives on inside Visual Studio.NET.
C++Builder, C#Builder, JBuilder, etc. put out of their misery (or
left to stagnate).

Computer Associates - "Where good software goes to die". Products
live on, but with price hikes to squeeze every last penny out of
existing customers (so what's new!).

IBM, Sun, Oracle, - Java/Eclipse shops, why would they want it ?

China - "Red Flag Delphi" :-P.

Any other guesses ?

Andy Mackie.
There's only one type of buyer that will give the IDEs a realistic hope
of a future - and that is a buyer with a PLATFORM and LOTS OF MONEY.
Such a buyer could use the Borland IDEs the way MS uses theirs, as
loss-leaders (ie CHEAP or FREE) to foster a developer community for the
platform. Since there are already two big players doing this (MS/VS and
IBM/Eclipse), there's no longer any hope for anyone trying to actually
sell IDEs for what they're worth.
Here's a few companies that fit the PLATFORM and LOTS OF MONEY criteria
(that dont already have a top class IDE):
Apple
Novell / Suse
Google / Mysterious GoogleOS (*prays*)
Sun (??)
Someone in the handheld/smartphone space
Cheers,
Andrew
 

Re:Speculation - Who would by an IDE company ?

John Jacobson writes:
Quote
"Dave Nottage [TeamB]" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
<XXXX@XXXXX.COM>
>A group of investors that don't necessarily have a company name
>behind them as yet?

That strikes me as the most likely. However, I wonder what happens if
they all make an offer that Borland considers too low, or
unacceptable because it would divide up the product line? Do they let
Delphi die simply because they think it is worth far more than the
bids? Or do they accept the best bid even though it means breaking up
the product lines to buy only Delphi, and then with staff cutbacks?
Does anyone honestly think those semi-promises from Borland's management are
worth anything? that is just posturing for the public and the employees. When
push comes to shove, the offer will be considered for it is cash value and
strategic details. A quick apology will be made for any shortcomings and
they'll move on with a clean conscience. that is business. It sucks but it's
the way most management teams operate (even if they don't like to think
about it that way).
Now that the decision has been made to chop the IDE group, there is zero
concern for them. They are already a forgotten memory as far as Borland is
concerned. We need to hope the buyer has the same vision the IDE group has
because they won't get much support from Borl. If they do refuse an offer
that seems good from a cash point of view, it'll be because they see a
strategic downside. An example would be if they feel the buyer will be
strengthened by the purchase in a way that would create a stronger ALM
competitor. That doesn't seem likely so it is going to be mainly a matter of
ka-ching.
--
Jim Rowell
 

Re:Speculation - Who would by an IDE company ?

Jim Rowell <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes <43f135c4$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>
Quote
Does anyone honestly think those semi-promises from Borland's management are
worth anything?
The only thing less honest than a politician is a business executive. Never
trust a guy in a suit.
--
***Free Your Mind***
Posted with JSNewsreader Preview 0.9.4.2055
 

Re:Speculation - Who would by an IDE company ?

John Jacobson writes:
Quote
Jim Rowell <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
<43f135c4$XXXX@XXXXX.COM>
>Does anyone honestly think those semi-promises from Borland's
>management are worth anything?

The only thing less honest than a politician is a business executive.
Never trust a guy in a suit.
The last CEO I had significant exposure to had everyone feeling all warm and
fuzzy. When the time came, she burned more bodies than Attila ever did.
Turned a reasonably competent & growing company into a corporate horror.
Replaced everyone with strategically selected and often very incompetent
outsiders. Basically crucified the staff in order to ensure her position.
Never trust a man *or woman* in a suit. <g>
As the snake in Jungle Book says: "You are getting sssssssssssssssleeeepy".
<veg>
 

Re:Speculation - Who would by an IDE company ?

Andy Gibson writes:
Quote
A Mackie writes:
>So who would want to by an IDE company ? Let's see:
>
>Microsoft - Delphi language lives on inside Visual Studio.NET.
>C++Builder, C#Builder, JBuilder, etc. put out of their misery (or
>left to stagnate).
>
>Computer Associates - "Where good software goes to die". Products
>live on, but with price hikes to squeeze every last penny out of
>existing customers (so what's new!).
>
>IBM, Sun, Oracle, - Java/Eclipse shops, why would they want it ?
>
>China - "Red Flag Delphi" :-P.
>
>Any other guesses ?
>
>Andy Mackie.

My two favourites are Google and Apple.

Apple is moving to an intel platform, and *could* try for a Mac
version of the VCL. In addition, they have the potential for
thousands of Delphi apps to be available on the apple platform.

There's plenty of talk of Google taking on MS, and coming out with
some kind of OS, even if it consists of only Firefox/GBrowser, GMail,
and Open Office as a simple thin client type offering. If they are
more interested in the desktop, then Delphi could be a huge asset for
the same reasons as apple. Create a native VCL and then try and
utilize the delphi apps already out there.

In light of recent events, it makes me wonder about Danny Thorpe
leaving Borland for Google. Was it to work on Firefox, or was it to
start laying groundwork?. Pah, he can work on Firefox in the evenings
at home in his jim jams. It may be a bit of a leap, but if Google
does buy Delphi, and Danny is back in the fold, wouldn't it at least
look suspicious?

Conspiracies aside, the one thing about these two companies buying
DelphiCo is that they will have bought it for a reason, with intent to
advance the platform, hopefully to the benefit of existing users as
well as their own goals.
I'd be afraid of either Google or Apple. I think any interest they might
have would probably conflict with the roadmap and the interests of the
current user base. For example, we'd all like to see Delphi compile to Apple
but not if it was going to cut seriously into the normal work would we?
I'd suspect it would be better if a consortium came about made up of
investors who had faith in it as seen by the IDE staff and it is users. No
ulterior purpose or interest other than making money over the long term. One
can hope.
--
Jim Rowell
 

Re:Speculation - Who would by an IDE company ?

A Mackie writes:
Quote
So who would want to by an IDE company ? Let's see:

Microsoft - Delphi language lives on inside Visual Studio.NET. C++Builder,
C#Builder, JBuilder, etc. put out of their misery (or left to stagnate).

Computer Associates - "Where good software goes to die". Products live on,
but with price hikes to squeeze every last penny out of existing customers
(so what's new!).

IBM, Sun, Oracle, - Java/Eclipse shops, why would they want it ?

China - "Red Flag Delphi" :-P.

Any other guesses ?

Andy Mackie.
My two favourites are Google and Apple.
Apple is moving to an intel platform, and *could* try for a Mac version
of the VCL. In addition, they have the potential for thousands of Delphi
apps to be available on the apple platform.
There's plenty of talk of Google taking on MS, and coming out with some
kind of OS, even if it consists of only Firefox/GBrowser, GMail, and
Open Office as a simple thin client type offering. If they are more
interested in the desktop, then Delphi could be a huge asset for the
same reasons as apple. Create a native VCL and then try and utilize the
delphi apps already out there.
In light of recent events, it makes me wonder about Danny Thorpe leaving
Borland for Google. Was it to work on Firefox, or was it to start laying
groundwork?. Pah, he can work on Firefox in the evenings at home in his
jim jams. It may be a bit of a leap, but if Google does buy Delphi, and
Danny is back in the fold, wouldn't it at least look suspicious?
Conspiracies aside, the one thing about these two companies buying
DelphiCo is that they will have bought it for a reason, with intent to
advance the platform, hopefully to the benefit of existing users as well
as their own goals.
 

Re:Speculation - Who would by an IDE company ?

Quote
>Conspiracies aside, the one thing about these two companies buying
>DelphiCo is that they will have bought it for a reason, with intent to
>advance the platform, hopefully to the benefit of existing users as
>well as their own goals.

I'd be afraid of either Google or Apple. I think any interest they might
have would probably conflict with the roadmap and the interests of the
current user base. For example, we'd all like to see Delphi compile to Apple
but not if it was going to cut seriously into the normal work would we?
Depends, in their attempt to reach that goal, it could create some bumpy
steps for current users, but there are opportunities.
I think one problem with CLX was that they were going for something
that was so compatible with the existing VCL because of current users.
What if someone like apple decided to keep but freeze the VCL for win32,
but create a new library that would be easier to implement in a cross
platform manner? They wouldn't care so much about being as compatible
with the current VCL because it isn't part of the VCL. We could get a
new library with unicode support, and supported multi-platform compilation.
Obviously, if they want to hoard Delphi for just Mac users, and keep
windows users ticking over, then no, that wouldn't be a good thing, and
probably wouldn't be good for them either. I am not saying either is
likely, but as long as they take win32 developers with them wherever
they take Delphi, then win32 developers will benefit from wherever they go.
Quote
I'd suspect it would be better if a consortium came about made up of
investors who had faith in it as seen by the IDE staff and it is users. No
ulterior purpose or interest other than making money over the long term. One
can hope.
I'd say the goal of making money long term is just as likely to conflict
with the road map. I think appearance-wise, a small consortium of
unknown investors would be the final nail in the coffin as it would seem
that no big name investors would be interested.
 

Re:Speculation - Who would by an IDE company ?

"Jim Rowell" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>wrote in news:43f135c4$XXXX@XXXXX.COM:
Quote

Does anyone honestly think those semi-promises from Borland's
management are worth anything? that is just posturing for the public
and the employees. When push comes to shove, the offer will be
considered for it is cash value and strategic details. A quick apology
will be made for any shortcomings and they'll move on with a clean
conscience. that is business. It sucks but it is the way most management
teams operate (even if they don't like to think about it that way).

Many years ago I worked for a software development company that specialized
in Fortran compilers. A financial company bought the software development
company without sufficiently taking the employees into consideration.
Within a month 90% of the employees had resigned and gone elsewhere. The
financial company was left with essentially nothing because all of the
expertise and domain knowledge had walked out the door.
We are talking millions of dollars lost because the buyer did not get the
employees on board.
Any potential buyer of the IDEs faces a similar problem. So that problem
becomes Borland's problem also. So this is not just a financial
transaction, i.e., maximize the cash received. In order for the buyer to
receive the value, the employees must be happy with the deal. And the
employees here are motivated by considerations other than how much cash
Borland receives. So I expect that any deal will have the characteristics
that the DevRel people have already expressed, or there won't be a deal.
 

Re:Speculation - Who would by an IDE company ?

Larry Drews writes:
Quote
Many years ago I worked for a software development company that
specialized in Fortran compilers. A financial company bought the
software development company without sufficiently taking the
employees into consideration. Within a month 90% of the employees had
resigned and gone elsewhere. The financial company was left with
essentially nothing because all of the expertise and domain knowledge
had walked out the door.

We are talking millions of dollars lost because the buyer did not get
the employees on board.

Any potential buyer of the IDEs faces a similar problem. So that
problem becomes Borland's problem also. So this is not just a
financial transaction, i.e., maximize the cash received. In order
for the buyer to receive the value, the employees must be happy with
the deal. And the employees here are motivated by considerations
other than how much cash Borland receives. So I expect that any deal
will have the characteristics that the DevRel people have already
expressed, or there won't be a deal.
That's the buyer's problem and it will be up to the buyer to ensure that the
employees are on board if it has the forsight or concerns regarding that.
Borland could care less if the new company wastes millions of dollars or
goes bankrupt the next day. Not their problem any more. Not their money. How
many buying companies would actually feel that the people are critically
important or that the majority would leave? I would say very few would hold
either view.
Regardless, Borland will say anything to us, the staff and the buyer;
whatever we want to hear as long as the laws are met. After the cash changes
hands, it is a wave and a quick see-ya-later.
--
Jim Rowell
 

Re:Speculation - Who would by an IDE company ?

"Larry Drews" <XXXX@XXXXX.COM>writes
Quote
Many years ago I worked for a software development company that
specialized
in Fortran compilers. A financial company bought the software development
company without sufficiently taking the employees into consideration.
Within a month 90% of the employees had resigned and gone elsewhere.
Wow. A financial company that does a remarkable imitation of an idiot. What
a surprise. I have yet to see a financial company that actually understands
assets that are not directly represented in a daily balance sheet. In fact,
the most clueless nincompoops I have ever worked for were financial
companies.