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Problem with StarTeam purging Utilty


2005-11-04 12:44:45 AM
off-topic15
Hi all,
using StarTeam 2005 purging Utility I've experienced a *BIG* problem.
The purge procedure has deleted several archive, from StarTeam Native-II
repository, related to several StarTeam object's "File" belonging to
StarTeam Views *never* deleted.
These files in StarTeam had been deleted before run the purge utility,
so now I'm no more able to retrive them.
I think the purge utility did something wrong. Are you agree with me?
Thanks,
----
Michele Capozzi
 
 

Re:Problem with StarTeam purging Utilty

You wrote
Quote
These files in StarTeam had been deleted before run the purge utility
If you really mean that as written, then purge could not be responsible.
Are you very very sure of the timing of this?
"Michele Capozzi" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
Hi all,

using StarTeam 2005 purging Utility I've experienced a *BIG* problem.

The purge procedure has deleted several archive, from StarTeam Native-II
repository, related to several StarTeam object's "File" belonging to
StarTeam Views *never* deleted.
These files in StarTeam had been deleted before run the purge utility, so
now I'm no more able to retrive them.

I think the purge utility did something wrong. Are you agree with me?

Thanks,
----
Michele Capozzi
 

Re:Problem with StarTeam purging Utilty

David Hegland wrote:
Quote
You wrote

>These files in StarTeam had been deleted before run the purge utility

If you really mean that as written, then purge could not be responsible.

Are you very very sure of the timing of this?

Sorry but there's something I don't understand.
Consider this scenario please.
I've a file named A in a StarTeam Project. This file is attached to a
View Label, named L, that for me corresponds a to a *product release*
running on a customer's product environment.
In the current view I've deleted the file A 'cos I don't need it anymore
(due to further product development for example).
Say now that I need to retrive the specific product release defined by
label L, to make some kind of acitvity (bug fix or whatever else). For
this activity I need the file A. But StarTeam has *definitely* deleted
it from its repository due to a purge procedure I've executed at a
certain point in time. So I no more able to "check-out" it.
This is just an axample to say that, for me, this is a *very wrong and
dangerous behavior*. In general I must *always* be able to retrive *any*
file in any specific *revision* till the view that file belongs is in
the project (ie, not deleted) as the "StarTeam Admonistrator's Guide"
say at pag. 237 paragraph "Purging Deleted Views from a Server
Configuration".
What do you think?
Thanks in advance.
---
Michele Capozzi
 

{smallsort}

Re:Problem with StarTeam purging Utilty

Replies in-line below...
"Michele Capozzi" wrote
Quote
In the current view I've deleted the file A 'cos I don't need it anymore
(due to further product development for example).
The "delete" you did here is only a soft-go-forward type of delete. You
always can see the file that _was_ there by using "View>Select
Configuration" and the label ("L" per your example)
Quote
Say now that I need to retrive the specific product release defined by
label L, to make some kind of acitvity (bug fix or whatever else). For
this activity I need the file A.
I totally agree with you so far. Again, you would do "View>Select
Configuration" and choose label "L" and then checkout the configuration. To
checkin fixes against this configuration, you would have to create a
branching view based upon the label "L".
Quote
But StarTeam has *definitely* deleted it from its repository due to a
purge procedure I've executed at a certain point in time. So I no more
able to "check-out" it.
I think you are mistaken here. I have worked extensively with purge and I
am very confident that file "A" still exists in your repository. I suspect
you are not using "View>Select Configuration" and hence you are viewing the
current configuration, and hence you do not see file "A".
Quote
This is just an axample to say that, for me, this is a *very wrong and
dangerous behavior*. In general I must *always* be able to retrive *any*
file in any specific *revision* till the view that file belongs is in the
project (ie, not deleted) as the "StarTeam Admonistrator's Guide" say at
pag. 237 paragraph "Purging Deleted Views from a Server Configuration".
I agree that you should always be able to retrieve any file in any specific
revision as long as the containing view exists. Again, I strongly believe
that you can do so, but that you are not familiar with the methods by which
one does so, as outlined above.
 

Re:Problem with StarTeam purging Utilty

David Hegland wrote:
[snip]
Quote
I think you are mistaken here. I have worked extensively with purge and I
am very confident that file "A" still exists in your repository. I suspect
you are not using "View>Select Configuration" and hence you are viewing the
current configuration, and hence you do not see file "A".


>This is just an axample to say that, for me, this is a *very wrong and
>dangerous behavior*. In general I must *always* be able to retrive *any*
>file in any specific *revision* till the view that file belongs is in the
>project (ie, not deleted) as the "StarTeam Admonistrator's Guide" say at
>pag. 237 paragraph "Purging Deleted Views from a Server Configuration".


I agree that you should always be able to retrieve any file in any specific
revision as long as the containing view exists. Again, I strongly believe
that you can do so, but that you are not familiar with the methods by which
one does so, as outlined above.

I'm glad that you're agree with me and please, try to belive me, I'm
actually familiar ehough about the use of StarTeam for doing such kind
of operations. That's why I depicted to you a complete scenario
including a label. Configuring a view at a certain moment in the past,
like the one the label was created, to recover a specific revision of a
file is an abitual operation for me. I've posted the original message
just because when I've tried to check-out all files attached to a
specific label (using "View>Select Configuration" obviousely), StarTeam
failed to recover *several* files with a "missing archive..." error.
I've tried many times.
Now, I understand that it may sounds strange but I'm *sure* that purge
has deleted those files 'cos I've a log of the purge activity and the
archives names shown in "missing archive..." errors (during check-out)
are listed in that log.
Simply said, I missed *several* files of a project. And this is not
accettable I think.
Any suggestions to manage this issue?
Thanks,
---
Michele Capozzi
 

Re:Problem with StarTeam purging Utilty

If you are absolutely sure then you should be talking to Borland Support.
What you describe has never happened to me (except when I remove files from
vault manually) and certainly should be considered an error.
Sorry not more help.
"Michele Capozzi" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
David Hegland wrote:

[snip]

>I think you are mistaken here. I have worked extensively with purge and
>I am very confident that file "A" still exists in your repository. I
>suspect you are not using "View>Select Configuration" and hence you are
>viewing the current configuration, and hence you do not see file "A".
>
>
>>This is just an axample to say that, for me, this is a *very wrong and
>>dangerous behavior*. In general I must *always* be able to retrive *any*
>>file in any specific *revision* till the view that file belongs is in the
>>project (ie, not deleted) as the "StarTeam Admonistrator's Guide" say at
>>pag. 237 paragraph "Purging Deleted Views from a Server Configuration".
>
>
>I agree that you should always be able to retrieve any file in any
>specific revision as long as the containing view exists. Again, I
>strongly believe that you can do so, but that you are not familiar with
>the methods by which one does so, as outlined above.
>

I'm glad that you're agree with me and please, try to belive me, I'm
actually familiar ehough about the use of StarTeam for doing such kind of
operations. That's why I depicted to you a complete scenario including a
label. Configuring a view at a certain moment in the past, like the one
the label was created, to recover a specific revision of a file is an
abitual operation for me. I've posted the original message just because
when I've tried to check-out all files attached to a specific label (using
"View>Select Configuration" obviousely), StarTeam failed to recover
*several* files with a "missing archive..." error. I've tried many times.

Now, I understand that it may sounds strange but I'm *sure* that purge has
deleted those files 'cos I've a log of the purge activity and the archives
names shown in "missing archive..." errors (during check-out) are listed
in that log.
Simply said, I missed *several* files of a project. And this is not
accettable I think.

Any suggestions to manage this issue?

Thanks,
---
Michele Capozzi

 

Re:Problem with StarTeam purging Utilty

Did anyone ever determine if there was a problem with the purge function? I
was planning to do a purge on our repository, but I'm wary after reading
this.
Thanks,
Matt
"David Hegland" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
If you are absolutely sure then you should be talking to Borland Support.

What you describe has never happened to me (except when I remove files
from vault manually) and certainly should be considered an error.

Sorry not more help.


"Michele Capozzi" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>David Hegland wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>I think you are mistaken here. I have worked extensively with purge and
>>I am very confident that file "A" still exists in your repository. I
>>suspect you are not using "View>Select Configuration" and hence you are
>>viewing the current configuration, and hence you do not see file "A".
>>
>>
>>>This is just an axample to say that, for me, this is a *very wrong and
>>>dangerous behavior*. In general I must *always* be able to retrive *any*
>>>file in any specific *revision* till the view that file belongs is in
>>>the project (ie, not deleted) as the "StarTeam Admonistrator's Guide"
>>>say at pag. 237 paragraph "Purging Deleted Views from a Server
>>>Configuration".
>>
>>
>>I agree that you should always be able to retrieve any file in any
>>specific revision as long as the containing view exists. Again, I
>>strongly believe that you can do so, but that you are not familiar with
>>the methods by which one does so, as outlined above.
>>
>
>I'm glad that you're agree with me and please, try to belive me, I'm
>actually familiar ehough about the use of StarTeam for doing such kind of
>operations. That's why I depicted to you a complete scenario including a
>label. Configuring a view at a certain moment in the past, like the one
>the label was created, to recover a specific revision of a file is an
>abitual operation for me. I've posted the original message just because
>when I've tried to check-out all files attached to a specific label
>(using "View>Select Configuration" obviousely), StarTeam failed to
>recover *several* files with a "missing archive..." error. I've tried
>many times.
>
>Now, I understand that it may sounds strange but I'm *sure* that purge
>has deleted those files 'cos I've a log of the purge activity and the
>archives names shown in "missing archive..." errors (during check-out)
>are listed in that log.
>Simply said, I missed *several* files of a project. And this is not
>accettable I think.
>
>Any suggestions to manage this issue?
>
>Thanks,
>---
>Michele Capozzi
>


 

Re:Problem with StarTeam purging Utilty

All,
There was a problem in Purge years ago with something like 5.3... this problem may have existed before, in fact I think it did.
It's problem wasn't deleting too much, it was deleting too little.
Now purge is pretty solid. The issue that it has is that it's very specific as to what qualifies as a deletable candidate. You have to be a file in a deleted view or project that has no shares to an active file (or other object) available to users in a currently viewable configuration... i.e. it better be gone, really gone.
If you have files missing from the Vault, then that's something else.
Kieran
"Matt Roberts" <matt dot roberts at appforge dot com>wrote:
Quote
Did anyone ever determine if there was a problem with the purge function? I
was planning to do a purge on our repository, but I'm wary after reading
this.

Thanks,
Matt

"David Hegland" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>If you are absolutely sure then you should be talking to Borland Support.
>
>What you describe has never happened to me (except when I remove files
>from vault manually) and certainly should be considered an error.
>
>Sorry not more help.
>
>
>"Michele Capozzi" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
>news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>>David Hegland wrote:
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>>I think you are mistaken here. I have worked extensively with purge and
>>>I am very confident that file "A" still exists in your repository. I
>>>suspect you are not using "View>Select Configuration" and hence you are
>>>viewing the current configuration, and hence you do not see file "A".
>>>
>>>
>>>>This is just an axample to say that, for me, this is a *very wrong and
>>>>dangerous behavior*. In general I must *always* be able to retrive *any*
>>>>file in any specific *revision* till the view that file belongs is in
>>>>the project (ie, not deleted) as the "StarTeam Admonistrator's Guide"
>>>>say at pag. 237 paragraph "Purging Deleted Views from a Server
>>>>Configuration".
>>>
>>>
>>>I agree that you should always be able to retrieve any file in any
>>>specific revision as long as the containing view exists. Again, I
>>>strongly believe that you can do so, but that you are not familiar with
>>>the methods by which one does so, as outlined above.
>>>
>>
>>I'm glad that you're agree with me and please, try to belive me, I'm
>>actually familiar ehough about the use of StarTeam for doing such kind of
>>operations. That's why I depicted to you a complete scenario including a
>>label. Configuring a view at a certain moment in the past, like the one
>>the label was created, to recover a specific revision of a file is an
>>abitual operation for me. I've posted the original message just because
>>when I've tried to check-out all files attached to a specific label
>>(using "View>Select Configuration" obviousely), StarTeam failed to
>>recover *several* files with a "missing archive..." error. I've tried
>>many times.
>>
>>Now, I understand that it may sounds strange but I'm *sure* that purge
>>has deleted those files 'cos I've a log of the purge activity and the
>>archives names shown in "missing archive..." errors (during check-out)
>>are listed in that log.
>>Simply said, I missed *several* files of a project. And this is not
>>accettable I think.
>>
>>Any suggestions to manage this issue?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>---
>>Michele Capozzi
>>
>
>


 

Re:Problem with StarTeam purging Utilty

fwiw I concur with Kieran. I am aware of various troubles (historical) with
things _not_ getting purged, but none with things getting purged when they
shouldn't.
For ST2005, I strongly recommend patch 15, although there seems to be some
confusion about patch 14 and patch 15 and which is current. As far as I
know, ST2005 pre-15 has serious problems with purge performance. As far as
I know, purge performance went into the sewer between ST5.4 and ST2005 and
was finally fixed in 2005 patch 15. As far as I know, that is.
It is my belief that Michele Capozzi was somehow mistaken in his assertions
about purge and we were unable to determine how.
dave
"Kieran Gobey" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote

All,

There was a problem in Purge years ago with something like 5.3... this
problem may have existed before, in fact I think it did.

It's problem wasn't deleting too much, it was deleting too little.

Now purge is pretty solid. The issue that it has is that it's very
specific as to what qualifies as a deletable candidate. You have to be a
file in a deleted view or project that has no shares to an active file (or
other object) available to users in a currently viewable configuration...
i.e. it better be gone, really gone.

If you have files missing from the Vault, then that's something else.

Kieran

"Matt Roberts" <matt dot roberts at appforge dot com>wrote:
>Did anyone ever determine if there was a problem with the purge function?
>I
>was planning to do a purge on our repository, but I'm wary after reading
>this.
>
>Thanks,
>Matt
>
>"David Hegland" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
>news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>>If you are absolutely sure then you should be talking to Borland
>>Support.
>>
>>What you describe has never happened to me (except when I remove files
>>from vault manually) and certainly should be considered an error.
>>
>>Sorry not more help.
>>
>>
>>"Michele Capozzi" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
>>news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
>>>David Hegland wrote:
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>>I think you are mistaken here. I have worked extensively with purge
>>>>and
>>>>I am very confident that file "A" still exists in your repository. I
>>>>suspect you are not using "View>Select Configuration" and hence you
>>>>are
>>>>viewing the current configuration, and hence you do not see file "A".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>This is just an axample to say that, for me, this is a *very wrong and
>>>>>dangerous behavior*. In general I must *always* be able to retrive
>>>>>*any*
>>>>>file in any specific *revision* till the view that file belongs is in
>>>>>the project (ie, not deleted) as the "StarTeam Admonistrator's Guide"
>>>>>say at pag. 237 paragraph "Purging Deleted Views from a Server
>>>>>Configuration".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I agree that you should always be able to retrieve any file in any
>>>>specific revision as long as the containing view exists. Again, I
>>>>strongly believe that you can do so, but that you are not familiar
>>>>with
>>>>the methods by which one does so, as outlined above.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I'm glad that you're agree with me and please, try to belive me, I'm
>>>actually familiar ehough about the use of StarTeam for doing such kind
>>>of
>>>operations. That's why I depicted to you a complete scenario including
>>>a
>>>label. Configuring a view at a certain moment in the past, like the one
>>>the label was created, to recover a specific revision of a file is an
>>>abitual operation for me. I've posted the original message just because
>>>when I've tried to check-out all files attached to a specific label
>>>(using "View>Select Configuration" obviousely), StarTeam failed to
>>>recover *several* files with a "missing archive..." error. I've tried
>>>many times.
>>>
>>>Now, I understand that it may sounds strange but I'm *sure* that purge
>>>has deleted those files 'cos I've a log of the purge activity and the
>>>archives names shown in "missing archive..." errors (during check-out)
>>>are listed in that log.
>>>Simply said, I missed *several* files of a project. And this is not
>>>accettable I think.
>>>
>>>Any suggestions to manage this issue?
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>---
>>>Michele Capozzi
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

 

Re:Problem with StarTeam purging Utilty

[snip]
Quote
It is my belief that Michele Capozzi was somehow mistaken in his assertions
about purge and we were unable to determine how.

David,
I don't want to convince you about this problem.
I manage an ST 2005 server with 70 projects more or less. There is a
mean of 5 views for project with thousands (yes, I said thousands) files
for project. I just did the purge activity. After that, several files
get lost: deleted from repository. But the projects and views that hold
these files are still 'alive' in ST and I'm actually no more able to
retrive them on rolled-back views. That's what happened. Simply said.
Kieran,
my only hint about purge is: do a backup of repository before start the
purge activity and hold it tight!
Peace and love :)
--
----
Michele Capozzi
 

Re:Problem with StarTeam purging Utilty

Hi Michele,
I hear and understand. I understand that you are saying that StarTeam's
purge removed files from the hive that were still in an active view. Even
though I understand your assertion, I remain skeptical of its accuracy.
Of course, I could be wrong. It is always possible that I am mistaken.
On the assumption that it did happen, please forgive my skepticism.
:) dave
"Michele Capozzi" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >wrote in message
Quote
[snip]

>It is my belief that Michele Capozzi was somehow mistaken in his
>assertions about purge and we were unable to determine how.
>

David,

I don't want to convince you about this problem.

I manage an ST 2005 server with 70 projects more or less. There is a mean
of 5 views for project with thousands (yes, I said thousands) files for
project. I just did the purge activity. After that, several files get
lost: deleted from repository. But the projects and views that hold these
files are still 'alive' in ST and I'm actually no more able to retrive
them on rolled-back views. That's what happened. Simply said.

Kieran,

my only hint about purge is: do a backup of repository before start the
purge activity and hold it tight!

Peace and love :)

--
----
Michele Capozzi